First, long arms with poor geometry or parts would cause a vehicle to be worth less than stock. Seriously, who would be silly enough to buy a jeep with a Rough Country or Rusty's JK long arm? Who would have been stupid enough to buy a JK with a Rubicon Express long arm back when they had their bushing problems?

Many long arm systems are worse than stock.

Would an experienced person buy a JK with a long arm on it that has much shorter rear upper arms than lower arms, knowing that either the bushings and joints will fail with much more frequency, or that the bracket welds will break and be ripped off the frame?

Experience shows that aftermarket modifications are worth about 10%-20% of their cost when on a jeep, and there is no add for labor.

A JK with a used value stock of $25k, with $10k of aftermarket modifications, excluding labor costs, will sell for $26k-$27k. People ask for more, but they rarely get more than this.

Example of a $15k cost of upgrades:

$3500 for a long arm lift that is coil and shock based
$2000 for 5 tires
$1500 for beadlock wheels
$1000 for driveshafts
$1500 for bumpers
$1000 for a winch
$600 for the cost of gears and overhaul kits
$1500 for hydro assist
$1400 for an engine skid and weld-on rock sliders, and other armor
$300 for a tuner
$700 for steering upgrades

If these things are on a JK that would otherwise sell for $25k stock, the seller will start by asking $30k. After no hits, he will lower the asking price. In the end, he will be lucky to sell it for $26k-$27k.

All you have to do is look at the classifieds on this and other forums.

The irony is that aftermarket parts that are in good condition are generally worth 50% of new if sold separate from the rig. So, if someone did $15k of upgrades on a jeep that was easily returnable to stock, he could generally pull off the upgrades and sell them for $7.5k, reinstall his stock parts, and sell the rig for the sample $25k.

 

Rock Krawler, Currie, Metalcloak, Clayton, Teraflex, and other short arms are perfectly capable of handling 12" travel.

Few long arm systems can handle or are designed for more than 12" travel.

If you stay at 3.5" or lower lift, you don't need a drag link flip for handling purposes, and this allows you to run much shorter front extended bumpstops, which significantly improves your suspension articulation.

Building a jeep and suspension is more than just having longer vs shorter arms. Geometry matters. Components matter--bushings and flex joiint ends. How things work together matters.

Just slapping on coilovers, without proper geometry of the mounts, with a poorly designed long arm, with low grade joints and bushings, will put you at worse on and off road performance than a JK with 2.5" springs, 11.5" travel shocks, minimal extended bumpstops, and stock length arms.

Come to EJS next week. See how suspensions work as people try to drive steep obstacles or flex out through complicated, technical terrain. Come to the vendor show and look at the designs.

See how some suspensions hop when driving obstacles. See how the front end unloads with others. See how suspensions that should have all sorts of travel and articulation simply don't work, lift tires all the time, etc.

See how bad geometry blows bushings and flex joints. See suspension brackets ripped off the frame.

It is pretty entertaining...as long as you aren't the person driving the rig you dumped a ton of money into, who's rig just doesn't work as well as a JK with a 2.5" BB on 35s.

 

I'm not saying that long arms are bad. I've already written earlier which ones I would buy with a stock gas tank and with out the stock gas tank.

 

For me going to a long arm was not that big of a deal building my own, I really don't like most of the kits out there as they compromise too much here and there. When I decided to build my own suspenion I was on 37's and 5.5" of lift. It looked cool but was unstable off road and really didn't climb well because the geometry of the factory short arms and brackets. I was breaking driveshafts and axles shafts doing more extreme trails. As you move up in tire size things get too easy and you move on to the next harder line, its just how it goes.

I was going to be cutting off factory brackets anyway so it was a no brainer to just go long arm while I was at it. It only cost about $75 more for the extra tubing to make the long arms. I jumped in with both feet, tons, coil overs all around, atlas, stretch, 3 link suspension, 40's.

Performacne gain was night and day but as a whole package. The tires, stretch, and widers and axles made a huge differerence in stability and traction. The atlas slowed me down on the techinical stuff and gave me much better throttle control. I rarely kill the motor on hard lines and as long as the tires grip I can idle up nearly vertical walls.

My answer to your question about "is the performance gain worth the cost it to you?" is that I doubt it. It is only one part of a whole system that needs to be designed to all work together to maximize performance.

 

Bumped into this one and thought I'd add a comment. Several years ago I was talking to John Currie at the Currie booth at EJS. I asked him if they planned to release a JK long arm kit in the future. He replied "Why, do you think you need one?" He went on to opine that at 4" and under the benefits of longer arms on a JK were primarily in ride quality, pre-running, etc., not much gain in on the rocks performance with the negative of lost clearance. He suggested at 4" and under lift with 12" max wheel travel there was really no economic benefit to a long arm suspension on a JK. Beyond that he felt the benefits came in when using coilovers at 14"+ wheel travel, 40"+ tires. He felt the comercially available kits at the time would not hold up well to the weight of D60s, and the added stresses of the wheel travel. He then tossed in the limitations of the JKs suspension design and thought a four link in the rear was needed to wring out the max benefit, which of course means moving the tank. So, at what point is this all not worth the time & money, and can we not tweak and tune a stock length arm suspension to get equivalent benefits at a lower cost?

 

Currie talked about this in their short arm 3 link build on the forum.

 

Everything he said is correct.
It's only worth the money and time if you plan to keep your jeep forever. This is why I don't recommend any long arm kit on the market except the Genright which ends up costing $30k+ with the axle swap and fuel cell. For this kind of money you should really be looking into a buggy that does not have the limitations of the JK. People are fooling themselves that they can build a super capable jk without destroying it. I love my jeep and plan to keep it forever but if I had to do it again I would build a buggy with a V8

 

I've been looking into long arms for quite awhile and this was a very helpful thread. I had been leaning to EVO, but I just didn't like the price. I felt the arms could be made cheaper and if the brackets could be bought separately I would be able to justify this mod even for minimum performance gains. I stopped following this route because I figure I would benefit from coilovers more than long arms with coils and shocks. At this point, I don't feel my budget allows for a major upgrade like coilovers, so I have been leaning back toward long arms. Hopefully I can get some advice or expand my knowledge on LAs and it'll help me make a decision.

Planman you posted these questions earlier, so I am going to fill it out to hopefully better explain my expectations.
What size tires do you plan to run?

35s now, 37s in the future. Never bigger

Will you run flat flares?

I don't, but have no issues running flats.

How tall a lift do you think you need?

2.5 would be ideal, 3.5 at most.

What kind of off road terrain will you do and how frequently?

I spend most of the time in sand dunes, but I like trails, mud is alright, not a rock fan.

At what speeds will you drive in off road terrain?

Faster the better - I know, I should get a buggy instead but I love my jeep lol

2 dr or 4 dr?

4 doors for more whores

How often will you drive obstacles that are extremely steep (enough to make your low oil dash light turn on if you stay there too long)?

That has never happened to me, so let's say never.

Will you tow with your jeep? If so, how heavy and how often?

I tow a small trailer + atv/motorcylce about once a month, but would like to tow a boat in the future.

 

I went synergy, sad fact is it deletes your transmission skid plate. But don't worry synergy sells a skid kit for use with their long arms for a mere $996 US!

if you can read this, my Jeep is broken....

 

If you got a 4 door and plan on getting a LA kit, you are just wasting your money. I can guarantee that none of you guys will ever be going fast enough to take advantage of it either way. Plus if you ever wheeled with any JKU's with LA kit, they'll get hung up all the time on them. LA kits were designed for short wheel base vehicles like YJ, TJ, etc. MFG's sell these kits to JK owners because of how gullible most of us are. A quality short arm kit will outperform any long arm any day. The only thing that LA have over short arms is that they look cool. TLDR: Long arms kits are a gimmick for JK's. But hey, it's your money not mine so don't look at this like a rant. Just trying to save people thousands of dollars.