Looking for HELP!! Please. FRONT END ISSUES.
Thread Starter
JK Super Freak
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,119
Likes: 1
From: Abbotsford, BC
Looking for HELP!! Please. FRONT END ISSUES.
Let me start this thread off by saying i have done my homework.
- About two weeks ago i was offroading and managed to get high centered on my tierod and banged up my steering stabilizer and front passenger lower control arm. the tierod was flexed pretty good on the tree stump, the steering stabilizer needs replacement and the control arm has a small dent on the curved outer side. After getting yanked off the stump the tierod seemed to go right back into shape and didnt give me any troubles the rest of the day, the drive home etc.
- Yesterday i was driving around 30mph and i experienced death wobble for the first time. yes it was death wobble, yes the entire front end and steering wheel was shaking, yes i had to come to a complete stop.
- I am running a 2.5bb with unlimited coils, shock extensions, and 35s (2-door manual with 40,000km). I am still using the stock front trackbar axel mount and trackbar. All control arms remain stock.
- Today i was under the jeep and torqued up my entire front end to specs per WOL; control arms upper and lower, trackbar, shocks, re-centered steering. My steering stabilizer is still dysfunctional and still on the jeep (this wouldnt cause the DW).
- Went out after this and still had a case of death wobble at the same spot the day before. Obviously something is going on here. From what i can see tierod is not bent, trackbar mount in holding on axel, tires are brand new.
Please help diagnose my problem. I have already priced out JKS trackbar and Rock Krawler Tie-Rod, and a new stabilizer. I would like to fix/replace myself and avoid going to dealership if possible. Thanks for reading.
- About two weeks ago i was offroading and managed to get high centered on my tierod and banged up my steering stabilizer and front passenger lower control arm. the tierod was flexed pretty good on the tree stump, the steering stabilizer needs replacement and the control arm has a small dent on the curved outer side. After getting yanked off the stump the tierod seemed to go right back into shape and didnt give me any troubles the rest of the day, the drive home etc.
- Yesterday i was driving around 30mph and i experienced death wobble for the first time. yes it was death wobble, yes the entire front end and steering wheel was shaking, yes i had to come to a complete stop.
- I am running a 2.5bb with unlimited coils, shock extensions, and 35s (2-door manual with 40,000km). I am still using the stock front trackbar axel mount and trackbar. All control arms remain stock.
- Today i was under the jeep and torqued up my entire front end to specs per WOL; control arms upper and lower, trackbar, shocks, re-centered steering. My steering stabilizer is still dysfunctional and still on the jeep (this wouldnt cause the DW).
- Went out after this and still had a case of death wobble at the same spot the day before. Obviously something is going on here. From what i can see tierod is not bent, trackbar mount in holding on axel, tires are brand new.
Please help diagnose my problem. I have already priced out JKS trackbar and Rock Krawler Tie-Rod, and a new stabilizer. I would like to fix/replace myself and avoid going to dealership if possible. Thanks for reading.
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
From: Twin Falls Idaho
Also check your alignment, chances are you did bend your tie rod even if it doesn't look like it. Doesn't take much of a bend to make a big difference with your alignment. Been there done that ...
JK Super Freak
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,320
Likes: 0
From: WI
Ok assuming that everything is tight. Then the natural frequency of the front end is a function of the square root of the stiffness divided by mass.
When you experience death wobble it means you have excited the natural frequency of the system.
Why did you not experience it in the past because this is a spring mass damper system and all the components were working as designed. For what its worth the spring and the mass define the natural frequency as stated above and the damping factor is what keeps it from amplifying the energy.
In our case those shocks mounted on the front axles called steering stablizeers are the damping element.
So if everything else is good, and you excite the natural frequency you will go into resonance (death wobble) unless you have enough damping to absorbe the energy.
So if nothing is loose or cracked (less stiffness) then your steering stabilizer if its junk after hitting the stump cant dampen the vibrations and you go into death wobble.
So yes a steering stabilizer can not cause death wobble but if its not working it can not dampen it out and make it stop.
So I suggest that you check your toe in and then get the steering stabilizer fixed (damper). Plus look the track bar mount on the frame and axle over real close for cracks.
Sorry to write so strange but if you go through engineering 101 you would understand that with out proper damping you can allow death wobble to occur. Plus I always get mad when I hear folks say that the steering stabilizer has no effect on death wobble. But if they do an engineering analysis you would understand why this is not true.
When you experience death wobble it means you have excited the natural frequency of the system.
Why did you not experience it in the past because this is a spring mass damper system and all the components were working as designed. For what its worth the spring and the mass define the natural frequency as stated above and the damping factor is what keeps it from amplifying the energy.
In our case those shocks mounted on the front axles called steering stablizeers are the damping element.
So if everything else is good, and you excite the natural frequency you will go into resonance (death wobble) unless you have enough damping to absorbe the energy.
So if nothing is loose or cracked (less stiffness) then your steering stabilizer if its junk after hitting the stump cant dampen the vibrations and you go into death wobble.
So yes a steering stabilizer can not cause death wobble but if its not working it can not dampen it out and make it stop.
So I suggest that you check your toe in and then get the steering stabilizer fixed (damper). Plus look the track bar mount on the frame and axle over real close for cracks.
Sorry to write so strange but if you go through engineering 101 you would understand that with out proper damping you can allow death wobble to occur. Plus I always get mad when I hear folks say that the steering stabilizer has no effect on death wobble. But if they do an engineering analysis you would understand why this is not true.
Thread Starter
JK Super Freak
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,119
Likes: 1
From: Abbotsford, BC
I'd bet your tie rod adjustment sleeve is shot. If you remove your tie rod, the driver side will probably be somewhat loose--not the end, but the actual rod that threads into the sleeve.
Also, if you have't read it yet, here is my DW explaination post:
https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/show...68&postcount=7
Also, if you have't read it yet, here is my DW explaination post:
https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/show...68&postcount=7
Ok assuming that everything is tight. Then the natural frequency of the front end is a function of the square root of the stiffness divided by mass.
When you experience death wobble it means you have excited the natural frequency of the system.
Why did you not experience it in the past because this is a spring mass damper system and all the components were working as designed. For what its worth the spring and the mass define the natural frequency as stated above and the damping factor is what keeps it from amplifying the energy.
In our case those shocks mounted on the front axles called steering stablizeers are the damping element.
So if everything else is good, and you excite the natural frequency you will go into resonance (death wobble) unless you have enough damping to absorbe the energy.
So if nothing is loose or cracked (less stiffness) then your steering stabilizer if its junk after hitting the stump cant dampen the vibrations and you go into death wobble.
So yes a steering stabilizer can not cause death wobble but if its not working it can not dampen it out and make it stop.
So I suggest that you check your toe in and then get the steering stabilizer fixed (damper). Plus look the track bar mount on the frame and axle over real close for cracks.
Sorry to write so strange but if you go through engineering 101 you would understand that with out proper damping you can allow death wobble to occur. Plus I always get mad when I hear folks say that the steering stabilizer has no effect on death wobble. But if they do an engineering analysis you would understand why this is not true.
When you experience death wobble it means you have excited the natural frequency of the system.
Why did you not experience it in the past because this is a spring mass damper system and all the components were working as designed. For what its worth the spring and the mass define the natural frequency as stated above and the damping factor is what keeps it from amplifying the energy.
In our case those shocks mounted on the front axles called steering stablizeers are the damping element.
So if everything else is good, and you excite the natural frequency you will go into resonance (death wobble) unless you have enough damping to absorbe the energy.
So if nothing is loose or cracked (less stiffness) then your steering stabilizer if its junk after hitting the stump cant dampen the vibrations and you go into death wobble.
So yes a steering stabilizer can not cause death wobble but if its not working it can not dampen it out and make it stop.
So I suggest that you check your toe in and then get the steering stabilizer fixed (damper). Plus look the track bar mount on the frame and axle over real close for cracks.
Sorry to write so strange but if you go through engineering 101 you would understand that with out proper damping you can allow death wobble to occur. Plus I always get mad when I hear folks say that the steering stabilizer has no effect on death wobble. But if they do an engineering analysis you would understand why this is not true.
thanks for replies guys. keep the ideas coming i will post up tomorrow.
JK Freak
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 787
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, Canada
DW Sux buddy, as you know I went through the same issue once, and had been under my jeep for hours and hours to figure out what was the problem. I ended up loosening all the bolts on trackbar, front lower control arms, check drag link knuckels, and put in RC dual SS. DW is gone since then, dont know if SS is just hiding it, but it definitely doesnt wobble. I heard millions of times that SS doesnt cure the problem, so you go figure.. 
Good luck with buddy, and here is a bump for you.
Good luck with buddy, and here is a bump for you.
Thread Starter
JK Super Freak
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,119
Likes: 1
From: Abbotsford, BC
Closer inspection of the trackbar mounts and bushings are important, but also be sure to at least drop the tie rod on the driver side to see if it is damaged at the sleeve.
Dropping the driver side end is easy. Remove the driver side wheel. Remove the cotter pin on the top of the tie rod end. Unbolt the nut. Remove the end from the knuckle.
A friend of mine with bad wobbles had severely damaged the threads that go into the sleeve at that driver side adjustment point of the stock tie rod. When we took it off to examine it, it wobbled like it was almost ready to break off and slide out.
Dropping the driver side end is easy. Remove the driver side wheel. Remove the cotter pin on the top of the tie rod end. Unbolt the nut. Remove the end from the knuckle.
A friend of mine with bad wobbles had severely damaged the threads that go into the sleeve at that driver side adjustment point of the stock tie rod. When we took it off to examine it, it wobbled like it was almost ready to break off and slide out.
also pulled off the stabilizer and trashed it. didnt get a chance to take a peak at the tie rod because i am already getting funny looks in my underground parking garage for working on my jeep for three days now. figured jacking it up and taking tire off would send red flags and the strata council would get after me. anyways.....i am going to order a new stabilizer and adjustable trackbar from david... and go from there (re-align front end). if there is still DW then i will take down the tie rod and replace if needed ???
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JK Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
The wobble
Hi, I found the same thing that the holes were larger than the bolts but not wallowed. I am getting some 14mm washers welded in to prevent movement and future walowing.
Tom
Tom
pulled the trackbar right off today. bushings are in good shape, mounts are ok. holes are slightly larger than bolts on both the upper and axel trackbar mounts but are not oval in shape and by no means give more than maybe a 1/16th in play.
also pulled off the stabilizer and trashed it. didnt get a chance to take a peak at the tie rod because i am already getting funny looks in my underground parking garage for working on my jeep for three days now. figured jacking it up and taking tire off would send red flags and the strata council would get after me. anyways.....i am going to order a new stabilizer and adjustable trackbar from david... and go from there (re-align front end). if there is still DW then i will take down the tie rod and replace if needed ???
also pulled off the stabilizer and trashed it. didnt get a chance to take a peak at the tie rod because i am already getting funny looks in my underground parking garage for working on my jeep for three days now. figured jacking it up and taking tire off would send red flags and the strata council would get after me. anyways.....i am going to order a new stabilizer and adjustable trackbar from david... and go from there (re-align front end). if there is still DW then i will take down the tie rod and replace if needed ???