I've been monitoring this thread because I had a feeling I was going to need a radiator replacement and was looking for an upgrade while I was at it and the Mishimoto was at the top of my list.

I work in the development of OEM parts, where part of my job over the course of an 8 year span was to support our warranty department in doing analysis on the hard to reproduce intermittent reported failures. So I've become very acquainted in using warranty data in doing data analysis to give myself further insight when doing those deep dive failure analysis and working closely with warranty departments. I would generally agree with Steve's statements above in that if you've sold a lot of parts a majority would not fail but they are aware of a problem and are investigating to correct that problem.

For myself in speaking in warranty terms, an identified problem with somewhat good quality overall would generally fall into a baseline of 500 PPM (Parts Per Million) failure rate range. That's 500 parts out of every 1 Million parts sold or a more simplified understanding often discussed in the Warranty terms is C/1000 (Claims per 1000 parts) where 500 PPM would then calculate out to be a .5 C/1000 or 1 failure out of every 2000 parts sold may see some type of failure. Anything over that and the OEMs are in your azz and telling you that you have a major quality problem that is driving our warranty claims and needs to be addressed immediately with urgency. I was often brought in at those times when there was a difficult to analyze problem and we were going over 500 PPM to do my deep dive analysis and get things turned around quickly and diffuse the situation with our OEM customer. I was also brought in on times to additionally increase our quality performance when it was consistently hoovering around that 500 PPM baseline range, since our real end goal like everyone else is to achieve a 0 PPM failure rate. BTW, the customer I supported the most during my analysis was Toyota/Lexus where quality and reliability are a top priority.

The point I'm getting at with all this background, is that although I would generally agree with Steve that the "majority" of parts are not seeing a failure, it's when I see quite a few of you reporting having a failure and receiving a replacement part and then seeing the same repeated failure. The odds of that happening for any part which has even somewhat good quality are unfathomable. Therefore those reports lead me to believe that Mishimoto really has a major quality problem with this JK radiator. So while Steve's statement of a "Majority" of parts aren't seeing a problem are likely truthful, that only really means that >50% of the parts aren't seeing a failure and at that, Mishimoto could be seeing a 499K PPM failure rate which in the OEM world, they would stop their production of vehicles if necessary. I'm not saying Mishimoto is a 499K PPM but without having the exact failure rate information, I'm able to conclude based upon the same customer reporting the same problem on multiple parts, it's a very high failure rate that most in the OEM business would say your quality is out of control.

I wish Mishimoto the best of luck in getting this turned around, but that's the major reason I decided to go with an OEM radiator instead of taking a chance on the Mishimoto. I felt my odds were likely better on winning big on a casino roulette table betting red or black. I also wish the best of luck to those of you who decided to purchase a Mushimoto radiator.:thumbsup:

Be nice to Steve
 

P.S. Also as a side note for this discussion thread. Please try to be civil with Steve. I can tell you from experience, Steve has a very tough job right now and what Steve is doing is very admirable. Everyone understands you are likely upset if you are dealing with a prematurely failed radiator. It's an inconvenience but it's not the end of the world. Steve is the guy who is here to assist you with the problem and providing you with insight and is likely not the guy in charge of getting the problems corrected. Steve is the guy who has the balls to have an open discussion with you about the problems you're experiencing and being the face of Mishimoto. That doesn't mean he's the person that deserves to get punched in the face and kicked in the balls by you and for you to take all your frustrations out on. If you start attacking him, since he is that customer face person, I would not blame him for not responding to you and leaving you on your own to deal with the problem which could also impact others as well. :thumbsup:

Thanks Rednroll; I don't take any of this personally. Having worked on and built cars for over 10 years, I've had my fair share of product failures and I completely understand the frustration it causes. I take a lot of pride in my work and the work that my coworkers do, so I want to make sure they're represented well. We want to get these issues resolved just as much as our customers because we do put a lot of work into our products and we want them to be representative of that. I appreciate your insight in your previous post as well. We hold our warranty rate far lower than 50% and we are definitely looking to resolve these issues as quickly as possible; but as I'm sure you're aware, that sometimes takes a long time to do right.

We agree. You should be able to trust that our products won't fail you when you need them most, and we're working to make sure that's the case for every product and every customer. Right now, however, the most that I can do is make sure that you're getting what you need from us. I'm going to shoot you a PM so we can talk about the best way to make this right for you.

If anybody else has any questions, feel free to ask, I'll do my best to answer them completely.

-Steve

Griffin Replacement
 

All, it's been a little bit since I popped in on this thread but wanted to say:

The Griffin is working fantastically with no leaks!

Its been in for over 3,000 miles.

If anyone is looking into an all aluminum replacement to the Mishimoto

Griffin Part Number: 5-00152

I have it installed in a 2015 JKU Rubi and it fit perfectly. Just saying, if you want to cut your losses (and coolant) and most importantly stop with the 3+ hours on installing a new one every 2k miles.

Now I'm nervous. I ordered the mishmoto based on the price I was able to get it for and the lifetime warranty. Usually I'll read reviews first but I was in such a panic because my 2nd OEM replacement by CSF failed after less than 3 years after the stock one started leaking (first replacement started leaking less than a year in), and having a 10+ hour drive coming up in a couple weeks, I didn't do as much research as I normally would. I bought this thinking it would be the last time I would have to replace a radiator. Please tell me improvements were made?? I have my winch cabling going thru my grille which means it takes longer to get the grille out so I can get the radiator out. Not to sound like a girl or anything but I will probably cry if this one starts leaking less than 2 years in.

Hi gmag16,

We're still working on updates for this radiator, but it's important to remember that we have sold many of these radiators over the years that have never had an issue. So it's likely you may never have to replace this radiator. If you do have to replace it down the road, our lifetime warranty will cover your replacement and you will always get the most up to date design.

Feel free to let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks!

-Steve

Thanks for getting back to me Steve. I'll think positive and keep my fingers crossed. 😊

No problem! You can always PM me here or email our customer service as well. I'm curious to know a little more about your other rad failures too, if you don't mind. How did the other rads fail (leak from the core, cracked weld) / did they fail in the same way?

Thanks!

-Steve

It happened, again
 

And....another leak, same place, same channel, third Mishimoto radiator...this is getting ridiculous. Now to decide whether it is a futile enterprise of getting a fourth replacement or just chalk it up as a bad investment.

Another one leaking
 

Mine's leaking to and I guess I'm screwed because the previous owner installed it. Less than 10k miles. Smh

I'm sorry to hear that you're having an issue with your radiator. I believe our customer service department replied to your PM but please let me know if there's anything else you need.

Thanks,

-Steve

I am on my fifth go around with the MMRAD-WRA-07. Original purchase in Feb 2016, each (but this last one - 2 months) has lasted about 8 months. 4-7 miles each time mostly daily driver. This time time they are sending a MMRAD-WRA-07V2 Jeep Wrangler JK Performance Aluminum Radiator V2, 2007-2017. We'll see if the version 2 does any better than the version 1.

I will say customer service has been very pleasant to work with. I am hoping this time fixes it for both our sakes.

I just checked the reviews on Amazon again. 49% of the reviews are 1 star complaining about leaks, there are 2, 2star reviews and 1 of those 2 reported a leaking radiator and there are 2, 3star reviews where both of them have reported leaks. So we might as well go ahead and say, 50% of the reviewers on Amazon have experienced a Mishimoto Radiator that has leaked under Warranty. We can therefore do some extrapolation and say, you have a 50% chance of receiving a Mishimoto radiator that won't leak.

The most recent amazon review has been posted January 2018. What an embarrassment. I can't believe they haven't just pulled this product from the shelves.

https://www.amazon.com/Mishimoto-MMRAD-WRA-07-Aluminum-Performance-Radiator/dp/B00GQJCL1A/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Here's a link describing the difference between the one with all the leak problems, and the re-engineered version 2 that has just been released: MMRAD-WRA-07V2 - Powered by Kayako fusion Help Desk Software The net difference seems to be: "Where our V1 radiator core utilized standard tubes, the V2 radiator features extruded, internally strutted tubes to help combat flex within the core. These strutted tubes provide the radiator with greater rigidity and durability, reducing the potential for cracks and leaks." I am getting a new one as a warranty replacement, and will report back on the longevity.

Wow. That failure rate is mind boggling.

Sure seems like this product was simply drawn up on a computer app to fit a specified dimension i.e. JK Wrangler, then sent to an overseas factory for production with no hands-on testing to assure the product actually works on said application. It obviously has a major design or manufacturing flaw.

The fact that they had a CS rep on a JK forum attempting damage control and actually asking for a voluntary test vehicle to try to remedy this problem over a year later before attempting a fix tells me everything I need to know about this product and company. It's actually laughable.

I'm glad I researched before purchasing.

Hi all,

Sorry I've been MIA for a while. And @rljk, I'm sorry that you've been having so many issues with our V1 radiator. As you've mentioned, we've been offering our V2 radiator as a replacement for the V1 for the past few months. We're confident that the changes made to the V2 radiator will solve the issues we've been seeing with the V1. Like the article posted above states, one of the biggest changes we've made is the addition of strutted tubes throughout the core. The struts within the tubes help support the radiator core and protect it against flex and the effects of thermal expansion and contraction.

I know this update has taken quite a long time, but we wanted to spend the time to gather as much data as possible and bring vehicles in to get first hand experience with what may be causing the failures. This has been a major rework and we didn't want to rush through it, only to make changes with no appreciable effect. As with all our products, we wanted to take the time thoroughly investigate and engineer the V2 radiator, before releasing it our customers. We try to be as open and transparent about our engineering process as possible. So, If you're ever curious about what goes into creating a new product, feel free to check out our Engineering Blog where we share every step of the way.

We recognize the severity of the issues that the V1 radiator has had and the frustration that it has caused. That's why we've created the V2 radiator and will be offering it as a warranty replacement to anybody who has issues with their V1 radiator. However, it's also important to note that the failure rate of the V1 radiators is still in the vast minority percentage of sales. While Amazon reviews may seem overwhelmingly negative, they make up only about 5% or less of customers running this radiator every day. I'm a writer and photographer who's terrible at math, so I won't attempt to extrapolate what percentage of total customers negative Amazon reviews make up.

Nevertheless, it's clear that the V1 radiator has not performed to either ours or our customers' standards. No matter what percentage of sales they represent, our customers are not happy with a product we sold, and we've worked to fix that. As I said, we're confident that the updates made to the V2 radiator will solve these issues and be a much better product for all of our customers.

My job here is not to make us look better with statistics and percentages. My job is to be honest with our customers and help them in any way I can. So, if you are having issues with a V1 radiator, or have questions, please feel free to let me know and I will do everything I can to help.

Thanks,

-Steve

Good to hear a redesign has been completed which sounds like it addresses the original problem. How does someone go about ensuring they are purchasing a V2 instead of a V1?

In light of the V2 being available it seems like a retailer recall should have been issued to elliminate any V1 retail inventory from the shelves. I really hope the plan isn't to keep selling the V1 that's on the shelves until they're gone and send V2 as a warranty replacements.

Looks like I am going to be due for a new radiator soon, stock one has 180k miles on it and starting to get some leaks. Nothing major and I have not investigated completely to see where the leaks are but initially does look like radiator itself. Anyway just from a "newbie" to this threads perspective and mainly for the Mishmoto representative, it sounds like there was either a lack of testing and/or a lack of understanding the requirement needs for a radiator for a Jeep, and I don't mean any disrespect by that. I only got through the first few pages but I do want to commend you for answering the questions and addressing people's comments. The fact that you are a part of this forum and others shows that you guys want feedback (good or bad) about your products. Now as to my statements, I mean if the radiator was truly tested for typical Jeep use then any issues with cracks due to vehicle flex would have been uncovered. I know the first few pages you kept saying that you guys were not sure if it was due to vehicle flex or not, but one thing I never read was that you guys actually took vehicle flex into account. For most applications I can see where this would be a minimal issue, however if your are designing an aftermarket for a Jeep then it should be designed at a minimum for the "mall crawler" ie a Jeeper who may get to go wheeling a couple of times a year where 4wd is barely needed (by the way I fit in to this category). I would hope that the design and testing requirements for a radiator for say a high performance street car that can go 120mph would be different then say for a Jeep. The 2 vehicles are very different and have very different uses and needs. This is what I mean by understanding the requirement needs. I have seen your products advertised on many of the "car shows", as most everyone on this forum has and was seriously considering getting the one for my Jeep, however due to the issues with the V1 radiator for the Jeep I will probably be looking at doing just an OEM replacement as I don't want to take the chance of having to put multiple ones in my vehicle.

Hey guys,

Sorry for the delayed response. As for ensuring that you're ordering the V2 radiator, we stopped selling the V1 radiator quite a while ago and most of our distributors have also been out of stock; so any order you make from now on should be the updated radiator. Of course, any warranty radiators will be replaced with the V2 rad as well.

@resse06, while we can't take every development vehicle to Moab or thrash them up dunes, we do tailor our engineering process towards the vehicle's needs and its intended use. Considering our customers is the basis for creating aftermarket parts. In the case of the V1 radiator, we did design it to resist the flex that a Jeep would see during off-roading.

All vehicles have some chassis flex and we've become all too familiar with it when developing our Ford Powerstroke products. So we did account for the radiator to see torsional stress. We kept the rubber isolator bushings at the top and bottom of the radiator and of course added rigidity with fully-welded aluminum. The same materials and processes are used on our race radiators that have literally been wrapped around trees on rally stages and not leaked. Which is why we didn't want to pin the failures that we were seeing solely on chassis flex. The data didn't support that as the only factor. Many of our V1 customers have no problem taking their jeep on trails and up rock faces; and many of the failures we saw were strictly on-road daily drivers. That inconsistency in data, and the fact that similarly made products had been track proven to endure pretty harsh beatings, led us to believe that flex may not be the only cause.

The strutted tubes in the V2 radiator will add strength to the entire core to help resist external and internal forces. That strength will not only mitigate the effects of flex, but also thermal shock and heat on the tubes. There are a lot of forces applied to a vehicle component. Some of them, like flex and expansion, can be accounted for and tested against in the engineering process. But sometimes those factors add up differently in daily use and no testing can plan for that. With the V2, we're confident that we've over-engineered the radiator to handle the perfect storm of issues. If you ever do decide to go with an aluminum rad, I think you'll be happy with our V2, but I understand your hesitance.

Feel free to let me know if you have any other questions, I'm happy to answer them!

Thanks,

-Steve

PS: @reese06, your sig is great :rotflmao2: I'm pretty sure if you asked my wife about my cars, she'd say one is red and one is silver and I spend way too much money on both :D

Is there any real-world feedback on the Mishimoto v2 radiator? My OEM radiator sprung a leak and an upgrade would be helpful for my supercharged 3.6L.

This thread got quiet. Have the V2 radiators solved all of the issues with the V1?

Just saw a tumbleweed blow by this one lol. Anyone ever end up getting the V2 rad?

Sounds promising on paper anyways. From their website:
"..features extruded, internally strutted tubes to help combat flex within the core. These strutted tubes provide the radiator with greater rigidity and durability, reducing the potential for cracks and leaks."

I’m on my 2nd OEM RAD. My factory installed lasted 60K before developing a pin hole leak on the upper drivers side, currently have about 50K on the replacement. I believe I paid $275 for the OEM.

@Mishimoto has not even seen fit to reply with any updates. There are other aftermarket radiators available if you look. I installed the V1 in my 2008 JK in 2015, it's still going just fine no leaks so far. The O.E.M. rad is known to leak, that is a fact. I believe even a well built aftermarket rad will eventually develop leaks if you wheel your Jeep. The better designed and made a component is, generally the longer it will last under stress. It's just a matter of finding a good heavy duty radiator and making sure it is properly installed, (quality rubber mounts). We are at the mercy of the designers, engineers, and the bean counters.

My stocker rad is 6 years old now, cooling the Chev engine and no leaks. When you mount any radiator you leave the top bolts with the isolators just about ready to touch the mount frame - no tighter. Anchor the bolts with blu loctite. Allows the frame to flex and not twist the rad.

Wow, I'm assuming the V2 design is going well. I am in need of a new radiator and I see it is slightly larger than stock. I hope it will hold up to off-roading if I keep the upper bolts loose with blue loctite.

Ive had the mishimoto v2 rad in my 6.4L now for about 2months and so far so good and includes a 3day trip offroad. i would say the v2 rad fixes the issues present in the v1.