Mishimoto Radiator
 

For those of you considering getting a full aluminum radiator once your OEM fails, I would highly recommend you consider another option. Although Mishimoto customer support has been adequate, I have found the quality control of these radiators to be less than satisfactory. I am now on my second lifetime warranty claim, and I salute them for honoring these claims. However, the fact that I have had two cores fail in under a year is disappointing to say the least. Additionally, the shipping cost of the replacements, and the MOPAR HOAT costs as well, has made this a pricey enterprise. Not to mention the time spent communicating with customer support and the time necessary for installation. If it fails again, I'm just going to have to eat the price of the radiator and likely just get a replacement OEM. Just a heads up for those considering this attractive yet disappointing product. Of course, I cannot speak for other owners and maybe my experience is an anomaly.

if i rember right i seen a company a few months ago that made a replacement copper brass version. if my OEM fails i plan on going with that one.

Where was it leaking at , I just put one of them in my jeep hope for the best I guess

I just put a Mishimoto Radiator in my JK in July and it has been leaking from the core as well. After reading multiple complaints about the same thing, just going to straight to OEM to replace it. So frustrating

As someone who's seen Mishi products in a number of circles, this is unsurprising. Their core quality has always been subpar, and my suspicion is that they bulk buy from overseas, weld on tanks (they're horrible welders), and pass their rads and intercoolers off as "performance".

what does
 

a oem cost ?

Just an update on it, I'm certainly ignorant when it comes to evaluating the quality of their product and what aluminum can tolerate. However, I have had excellent communication with their customer support, who continues to impress despite my frustrations.

They requested a survey about my vehicle that they are requesting from the Jeep JK customers who have filed for a warranty replacement. I inquired why, and this was the response:

"We have noticed that there is an issue with the construction of the Jeeps more-so than there is with the radiator. The front end of these jeeps do have quite a bit of chassis flex that is causing premature failure of solid aluminum radiators, and we are in the middle of working on a solution for this at the current time; unfortunately we do not have an anticipated completion time-frame for this though. This is why we had sent over that brief survey to gather more information for the vehicle. To help keep this from happening again, our production team has recommended going over the front end of the jeep and updating any worn out bushings or loose components with upgraded bushings if possible to help stiffen the front end of the vehicle."

I would need input from other members to confirm if some of this is true. But regardless, I appreciate the customer service response.

Both of them leaked from the core on the upper passenger side.

Attachment 662330

I would've rotated the image, but I don't have the desire to figure out how tonight:). Just rotate your computer to get the idea.:beer:

At 185,000 miles I replaced my perfectly good original radiator with another OEM radiator because I had a trip above the Arctic Circle. I ended up with an OEM radiator, after researching aftermarket offerings and hearing many similar complaints to what I'm reading here. And, that is what the mechanic doing the work, a personal friend and highly experienced, recommended. I'm now over 200K miles and will be delighted if I can get 400K miles out of the Jeep. I honestly see no reason to opt for one of the aftermarket ones until such time one can be assured that what they install will work.

hrm... I call bs on that explanation. As Mark Doiron says... the OEM lasts.. I don't buy a construction problem with the jeep itself. I also don't understand the extra cooling that folks see a need for? The OEM radiator cools my 6.0L iron block without troubles in 100+ degree heat while rock crawling and when towing?? I say stick with OEM and make sure you keep the front of the jeep clear of obstructions.

You're right not to trust without verification. On another application, and intercooler performed worse than stock, and their oil cooler was overspec'd to the point the system never reached proper operating temp. It's monkeys and a typewriter creating Shakespeare.

Hi everybody,

My name is Steve and I’m an automotive journalist with Mishimoto. My job here is to follow our product engineering process and write about it so that our customers can get an in-depth look at what we do and how we do it. I also work to help customers with issues they may be having with our products, so hopefully I can help and give some insight here as well.

First off, I’d like to apologize for the inconvenience these issues have caused you all and let you know that our customer service is committed to doing everything they can to help resolve any concerns or issues you have with our products. That being said, I encourage anybody who’s having issues with this radiator to contact customer service and fill out a warranty claim.

We are in the process of gathering data in order to isolate the cause of these failures. When filing a warranty claim, as jsmittyund03 said, customer service should ask you a series of questions about the vehicle and its use to help us do that.

At this time we don’t have enough data to determine the cause of the issues, which is why I encourage anybody who has had this issue to contact customer service. If you have our radiator installed and do not have an issue, please feel free to PM me as well. The more data, the better.

We suspect that the issue may lie within the tolerances of the radiator mounting points or with chassis flex, but we cannot be sure without more feedback from customers. If you filed a warranty claim or had this issue in the past, but were not asked about your vehicle, please PM me and I will gather that information as well.

We’re also looking for somebody in the Wilmington, Delaware area to let us borrow their 2015-2016 JK so that we can get an in-person look. This vehicle would preferably be close to stock to eliminate as many variables as possible. So, if you or anybody you know would like to help us get to the bottom of this issue and wouldn’t mind us borrowing your car for testing, please let me know.

Transparency in our engineering and manufacturing process is something we pride ourselves on, so I wanted to address this concern as well. Here at Mishimoto, we are a global corporation and our products are made in facilities around the world. Our headquarters is in Delaware, and we have offices in LA, the UK, Australia, and China.

While some of our manufacturing occurs in China – along with other high-quality companies such as Apple and many major automobile manufacturers, including Ford and GM; all of our research, design, and testing is done in our 27,000 square-foot engineering facility in Delaware, where I am currently sitting. That includes our radiator cores that are engineered and spec’d for each vehicle and each application. Everything from fin-pitch, to row-height, and core thickness is considered when engineering a radiator.

Our engineers, who work in that same facility, are a dedicated bunch who love their cars and trucks as much as they love creating products for your vehicles. In fact, just this week we had a Jeep XJ in to test fit a radiator. Jason, the engineer for the XJ project, also owns a YJ Wrangler that he often takes through the trails around his home in Maryland. Here’s a photo of Jason working on a Dodge Challenger that we had in a few weeks ago, and the view from his YJ on the trail:

https://i1.wp.com/engineering.mishim...00%2C400&ssl=1
One of my goals in life is to embarrass Jason at least once per post

https://i0.wp.com/engineering.mishim...2/Jason_YJ.jpg

Jason and our other engineers work tirelessly with our project managers and manufacturing team to make sure that we produce the highest quality products available. If anywhere along the development process we see something that doesn’t meet our strict quality standards, we make sure it’s corrected and test again and again until those standards are met. That process doesn’t end once a product is released either; we’re constantly evolving and improving upon our designs.

If you'd like to learn more about our engineering process, facility, and team, feel free to check out our Engineering Blog at https://engineering.mishimoto.com.

I hope this helps and if you have any questions definitely feel free to PM me or reply here.

Thanks!

-Steve

Mishi,

Thanks for contributing to the discussion. I'm going to be installing the warranty replacement today and will update the thread as things either go well or otherwise. Once again, as I have always said, the customer service has been top notch, I am just hoping the radiator quality reflects that high caliber customer service. Thanks again for your input.

Of course! I hope this radiator meets your expectations; feel free to let me know if you have any more issues. I've also sent you a PM about possibly using your vehicle for testing, but if anybody else would like to volunteer their JK for testing please PM me!

Thanks again,

-Steve

How do you account for the efficiency issues on other platforms, then? If it wasn't the manufacturing as I speculated, the design and testing become the weak links, which is even less reassuring.

I know not all of your products have issues, and that all manufacturing processes have tolerances and acceptable failure rates, but my experience in the past has been poor. I'd love to see things change, but this thread isn't a good barometer of a positive shift in course.

It doesn't make sense to me that a vehicles' flex would be destroying these radiators if they are mounted with the same bushings and locations as OEM. OEM are not as thick and have plastic ends, but if you look at the design of those plastic ends they aren't designed to absorb flex.

I have had a Mishimoto radiator for 6months without any issues (so far and hope it stays that way), but when installing I was surprised at the fit, it was not as good as I have seen with other vehicles. I had to do a little creative manipulating to get air ducts to fit up right, etc.

As far as people discussing how hot the vehicle runs, etc I can only shed some light on the 3.6L motors. 2012+ engines run hot, they really use the engine fan to suck air thru that radiator. My JK basically runs at the same temp as it used to with OEM, but I definitely noticed the engine fan does not come on as often. Granted, I have not collected hard numbers to prove anything, just my observation with my jeep.

I had to replace my radiator because I was stupid (see below) and mud got between the engine fan and the radiator and smashed smashed smashed a ton of cooling fins on the engine side... so washing it out was not an option because the airflow was reduced by about 30%-50% from all the damaged fins. Incidentally, photos recovering my jeep has been used by a few companies like bulldog winches because they had a guy on that trip.

Landoawd,

Thanks for the feedback! We do like to adopt a spirit of continual improvement at Mishimoto. This is, of course, only possible through feedback from our customers on how we can improve.

Could you point me to exactly which products you're referring to and the experiences you've had with them? There are a lot of factors that go into efficiency and, as you said, all manufacturing processes will have errors; but that's why we offer our lifetime warranty, to try and minimize the impact any manufacturing errors may have on our customers. That's also why we respond to threads like these, in order to identify recurring issues and to bring the highest possible value to our customers. Test conditions seldom cover the entire scope of real world use for any product, but we really are constantly looking for ways to improve our products. That improvement often takes time and the input of many customers and professionals.

We appreciate the discussion!

Thanks again,

-Steve

Thanks for the response!

I don't want to hijack jsmittyund03's thread, but I want to answer as many questions as possible. While, as I said, we can't be sure what the cause of the failures is without more data, chassis flex or mounting tolerances may be a factor. The plastic end-tanks of a stock radiator, while they may seem very rigid, will flex and transfer impact forces in a much different way than aluminum and welds will. The key to solving the issue may be in redirecting those forces or absorbing them with different mounts or bushings. But, like I said, all of this is theory. Until we are able to bring in a vehicle to test with, we can only go so far.

I'd be very interested in seeing the modifications you had to make to fit the Mishimoto radiator, Spicoli; would you be able to send me any photos? I'd also be interested in how you use your JK and any modifications that have been done to it, along with the mileage and a few other questions that we ask those who file a warranty claim. If you wouldn't mind sending me a PM with that info, I'd really appreciate it!

Thanks again,

-Steve

Super cool that Mishimoto is replying to the thread but I'm seeing similarities between canned responses on Powerstroke forums and here. This link here: Who is running Mishimoto radiators - Page 11 - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum Shows that Mishimoto is implying that either the rigidity of the vehicle or the flex of the vehicle is affecting the radiators. The radiators, in my opinion, should be built around the vehicle...not the vehicle built around the radiator. It seems like your last response acknowledges that different mounts may need to be designed which seems logical. As jedg says, the stock radiator keeps his 6.0 cool so not seeing the benefit other than it looking slick.

Hi urmyboyblue,

I should clarify what I'm saying here: At the end of the day, we do not know for sure what's causing these issues with the JK radiator. Until we're able to test on a volunteer JK, the best that we can do to work towards a solution is to draw on past experiences with other vehicles, of which, the 6.4 Powerstroke is one. We've encountered a good number of vehicles in the past where chassis flex would have caused failures of our radiators; one great example is the 1994-95 Ford Mustang (https://www.mishimoto.com/ford-musta...tem-94-95.html) . For that vehicle, we created new stabilizers for mounting the radiator to isolate it from the chassis flex.

While chassis flex or mounting tolerances may be the cause of this issue, it may not be the cause at all. Right now all we can do is gather data and create theories to test when we do have a vehicle.

So, if you or anybody you know has a JK that they wouldn't mind lending to us for testing, it would greatly speed up the process of getting to the bottom of these issues. Of course, once we do get a test vehicle we will keep you all updated as to what we find, chassis flex or not :)

Thanks!

-Steve

Pick me, pick me. For about $15,000 you can have a 2007 JKU Sahara test vehicle.

If it's flex that's cracking them why don't you have a rubber or plastic bracket that bolts to the side for the upper mounts . It sucks because I just installed one ....

Haha, unfortunately we don't quite have the budget to buy a JK. However, if you want to take a road trip to Delaware and let us borrow it, I won't say no ;)



To reiterate, we do not know for sure if chassis flex is causing the issue or not, that is just a possibility to check once we do get a test vehicle in. Not all of the JK radiators we've sold have had this issue. In fact, only a small percentage have filed warranty claims; however, that small percentage is more than we'd like to see.

The factory mounting system does incorporate rubber upper and lower mounting bushings that seem to isolate the factory radiator enough and did not cause an issue during our testing. However, we may need to reevaluate the effectiveness of those mounts once we have a vehicle to test on. But again, all of this is theory until we can test on a vehicle :)

Feel free to let me know if you have any more questions,

Thanks!

-Steve

DSMs - Radiators (fitment and bunk fans)
Genesis Coupe - Intercooler (less efficient than stock; core/fin setup designed by sea monkeys) and oil cooler (over-engineered to the point where oil actually has issues reaching operating temp, but marketed as "look how cool our oilz is guyz")

Sorry for the delay. I saw someone's second Mishi radiator fail in his JK over on another forum and remembered this thread. Stick to oil caps.

Hi landoawd,

I don’t want to get the thread off on a tangent of other products but I would like to address your concerns.

At this time, we are not aware of any fitment issues with any DSM radiators or issues with DSM fans. However, as I mentioned before, we are constantly looking to improve our products. Any issues that may have existed in the past have likely been resolved through input from our customers and our lifetime warranty ensures that customers receive the most updated version of a product in the event that they have an issue.

In regards to the Hyundai Genesis Coupe intercooler and oil cooler, as I mentioned earlier, efficiency is a very tricky beast. What works very well for one vehicle and build may not work for another vehicle. That particular intercooler was tested extensively to work well on vehicles with mid to very high horsepower. It is offered in two kits, a street version which utilizes our Z-Line core, and a race version that utilizes our J-Line core. Both the street version and the race version were tested on a nearly stock Genesis and showed about 25° better cooling than the stock intercooler. Although it works well on lightly modified vehicles, the race version is intended for use on very high horsepower vehicles. In fact, it was tested in Texas on one of the highest horsepower Genesis Coupes in the world and showed power gains and increased cooling efficiency. You can read the full engineering report for those two kits here.

As for the oil cooler; all our oil cooler kits are offered with a thermostatic or non-thermostatic sandwich plate. Generally, we recommend anybody who daily-drives their vehicle use the thermostatic sandwich plate. This ensures that the oil reaches operating temperature as it would with the stock system before the sandwich plate’s thermostat opens and allows the oil to flow through the cooler. The non-thermostatic oil cooler kits are ideal for those that primarily race their vehicles or who live in very hot climates and may have issues with insufficient cooling from the stock system. You can also read the engineering report for that oil cooler kit here.

Of course, our customer service and I are always available to help work out what’s best for your setup and your vehicle. As I said, we’re constantly looking for ways to improve our products and bring better value to our customers. Feel free to let me know if you have any other questions!

Thanks! Have a good New Year!

-Steve

After having mine installed for a few weeks I can say that my fan has come on less then it used to . But I guess time will tell if mine starts leaking....

I don't believe I asked any questions, and I've seen the brochures before.
Having tuned cars for 20 or so years, I'm sharing my experience with the products; nothing more. I'll stick with Koyo, Garrett, etc...And OEM on applications where no gains are to be had.
Have a good one, Steve.

We appreciate the feedback!


Good to hear! Let us know if anything changes; our customer service is here to help.


Just to give you guys a quick update, we currently have this 2008 JK in the shop to dig deeper into this issue. We plan to bring in a few different JK's from different model years and with varying mileage as well. I'll be sure to keep you updated with anything we find.

Attachment 664048

Attachment 664049


Thanks!

-Steve

I'm currently suspecting that I may have a small leak somewhere in my OEM radiator. In light of that, I started shopping around for a replacement radiator and the Mishimoto was one that I had considered and was originally excited to purchase. However, after doing more research I have found what the OP described to be a somewhat common experience. If you go on Amazon and look at the listings for the JK Wrangler Mushimoto radiator, you will read quite a few reviews stating the same problems and headaches as the OP.

I decided since the price of the Mushimoto is almost double the costs of an OEM replacement and there seems to be quite a few common failure reports with the Mushimoto, I rather not risk having to deal with those headaches. My current OEM Mopar radiator has 125K miles on it, and I have never had any overheating problems. It has served me well. The only problem I currently have is that my heater is no longer functioning up to snuff in the cold weather and after some further diagnosis, I'm pretty certain that is due to loosing pressure in my cooling system, thus the reason I suspect a small leak somewhere, most likely the radiator. The lifetime warranty sounds great on the Mushimoto, but after reading the associated problems in using that warranty, it doesn't sound like a path I would like to pursue. I don't consider replacing radiators to be all that fun on the Wrangler, especially this time of the year where the outside temp is 20F in my area. Therefore, if I can get another 125K miles from a Mopar replacement OEM radiator, I feel I rather go down that path for 1/2 the price and that will likely be close to the lifetime of my JK Wrangler with it's current engine anyways.

If someone would like to try and convince me all these common problems no longer exist with the Mushimoto, then I may reconsider. I'm currently waiting for some warmer weather before I purchase a replacement radiator. However, the Amazon reviews reporting the same problems all seem pretty current. The latest review being submitted December of 2016, so the common problems don't seem to be currently resolved.
https://www.amazon.com/Mishimoto-MMR...ator+mishimoto

Hi Rednroll,

I completely understand your trepidation after reading the Amazon reviews for this radiator. What I can say, however, is that we have sold a pretty large number of these radiators and the majority of customers have not reported issues with them. Nevertheless, we're determined to come up with a solution for those who are having issues. As I said in my last post, we have a 2008 JK in right now to test on and hope to have a 2016 JK in within the next few weeks. We certainly aim to have a path forward on this issue before spring and I will keep this thread updated with developments.

As always, our warranty will ensure that, if you do have an issue with one of our products, you will receive the most up to date version as a replacement.

We always appreciate the feedback and I hope to bring you good news about this product in the near future.

Thanks!

-Steve

Just a quick update, I have had the radiator in for a couple of weeks now without issues. It does appear to have a little different appearance from my previous two radiators...the filler neck seems different. I will post pics when I get a chance. So far no drips, will update if that changes.

Thanks for the update! We also wanted to give you all an update:

We've borrowed this 2016 3.6L JK to double check fitment and look into this issue on a newer model. We have a few ideas for updates and once they're signed off on, I'll be able to give you all more information.

Attachment 665377 Attachment 665378

Thanks again!


-Steve

We just installed one of these radiators in our 2014 Jeep. The factory unit failed before 40k miles. Hopefully this new unit will last a bit longer. We will keep you posted.

Definitely let us know how it goes and if we can help in any way!

Thanks,

-Steve

I have a Mishimoto radiator sitting in its box in my basement. I invested the extra $ in the Mishimoto because I plan to drive this Jeep for a VERY long time. I already have 220,000 miles on my 08 JKUR. Unfortunately it started leaking shortly after installation. I had a trip planned and did not have time to return it and wait for the replacement. So, back to OEM I went.

Steve, I would be happy to send the leaking radiator to you in its original box so that you can perform failure analysis. Just say the word and send me your address.

With kind regards,
Tom Johnson
tom@motownculvers(d0t)com

Hi Tom,

First let me say I'm sorry for the trouble you had with our radiator, I know how irritating unexpected issues can be, especially when you have plans that rely on your vehicle. At this time we have several new JK radiators from multiple production runs that we're checking out. The two JK's that we've had in also brought along their radiators that failed so we have a couple good case studies to work with. With that said, I would be happy to talk to customer service to see if we could get you a replacement radiator or a refund. Just let me know if that's something you'd like to do and thank you for the offer, we appreciate the community's willingness to help us produce better products!

Thanks again,

-Steve

Steve,

I would appreciate it if you would reach out to customer service on my behalf. I would prefer a replacement, but would like your opinion: Would I be better off waiting until you have an opportunity to complete your analysis and make any changes that are made based on that analysis?

Feel free to reply via pm if you think this should be handled outside of this thread.

Thanks for your input,
Tom Johnson

Hi Tom,

I'll shoot you a PM so that we don't overtake jsmittyund03's thread.

Thanks!

-Steve

2nd Mishimoto dead.... time to switch to Griffin?
 

Anyone put a Griffin 5-00152 into a JK? I see their site says it for 07-12 and I have a 15. My OEM lasted about 30k miles, the 1st Mishimoto about 6k, and this last one about 500.

I contacted Griffin and they said it would fit and everything would line up but the guy seemed unsure. Wondering if anyone had experience putting this radiator in something newer than a 2012.

They are more expensive but I'm willing to pay double that of the Mishimoto to not have to deal with this BS every few months.

I'm thinking you might not get a lot of responses about a Griffin in a Mishimoto discussion thread.:dontknow2: