More problems Please read
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JK Enthusiast
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 314
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From: Marshall , Missouri
More problems Please read
Im still chasing my dw problem I have checked my track bar for wobbled holes and re torqued to spec.I have loosened my upper and lower controll arms and checked for binding and torqued to spec. Checked all my stering components.So today my buddy was looking at my tires as I turned my stering wheel back and fourth he said your lower ball joint is bad.So I went to the dealer and my mechanic looked at it and said all four are bad!!!!! ALL FOUR BAD? The service mgr. Told me hed make a call and be right back.He came back and said Chrysler said they would pay half of parts and labor.I was shocked but happy. So will four bad ball Joints cause my problem??
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 400
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From: portland
First question... your JK still under warranty or they just being nice?
2nd. I talked to my buddy(jeep mechanic 20 + years) and asked about the balljoint thing. He said at most when you turn a corner or hit a bump you'll here the balljoints(if bad) make a clunking sound. Their moving obviously and need to be replaced. I asked because my steering has a little pulsating around 40 miles per hour. He never mentioned this would cause DW. I'm sure someone will chime in that knows way more than me but if not I'll call my buddy and ask
2nd. I talked to my buddy(jeep mechanic 20 + years) and asked about the balljoint thing. He said at most when you turn a corner or hit a bump you'll here the balljoints(if bad) make a clunking sound. Their moving obviously and need to be replaced. I asked because my steering has a little pulsating around 40 miles per hour. He never mentioned this would cause DW. I'm sure someone will chime in that knows way more than me but if not I'll call my buddy and ask
JK Super Freak
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,623
Likes: 5
From: Lawrenceville, NJ
DEATH wobble, and speed wobble, are not always the same thing...the DEATH version should be reserved for the incredibly violent shaking (And visible if you look out the window at the front tires) of the axle back and forth, that threatens to rip the steering wheel from your hands, and is not "A vibration" or "a wobble" any more than an earthquake is a bump, etc.
That said, any aspect of your alignment or steering that creates an oscillation, can result in any degree of wobble.
That can be due to insufficient, or too much, caster for example.
If you ever saw a chopper, one of those motorcycles with the front tire waaay out front...you would have seen a lot of positive caster.
That makes the bike track nicely, and is great for long rides, etc.
The large positive caster makes the tracking very stable, as the parts are braced in the direction of the road force.
On the other hand, a very large positive caster also makes turn in, the ability to change direction quickly, slower, as all that straight-line stability is harder to make transition to a turn.
If you ever saw a wheeled office chair, the kind where the little wheels spin around, so when you roll the chair, the wheels swing around behind the leg of the chair they're on...and they tend to wobble along as you roll the chair....you would have seen a lot of negative caster.
So, if the bottom ball joint is not far enough ahead of the top ball joint, you don't have enough positive caster, and you can find that the tire wobbles like it does on the office chair.
For most jeeps, you tend to need more positive caster after a lift, as the lift and adjustments to pinion angle, etc, tend to steal some caster.
Similarly if a ball joint, or tie rod end, etc, allows some play, then that part can't hold the tire still against the road forces, and the tire will be wiggling between the amount allowed by the play.
Hope that helps a bit!
That said, any aspect of your alignment or steering that creates an oscillation, can result in any degree of wobble.
That can be due to insufficient, or too much, caster for example.
If you ever saw a chopper, one of those motorcycles with the front tire waaay out front...you would have seen a lot of positive caster.
That makes the bike track nicely, and is great for long rides, etc.
The large positive caster makes the tracking very stable, as the parts are braced in the direction of the road force.
On the other hand, a very large positive caster also makes turn in, the ability to change direction quickly, slower, as all that straight-line stability is harder to make transition to a turn.
If you ever saw a wheeled office chair, the kind where the little wheels spin around, so when you roll the chair, the wheels swing around behind the leg of the chair they're on...and they tend to wobble along as you roll the chair....you would have seen a lot of negative caster.
So, if the bottom ball joint is not far enough ahead of the top ball joint, you don't have enough positive caster, and you can find that the tire wobbles like it does on the office chair.
For most jeeps, you tend to need more positive caster after a lift, as the lift and adjustments to pinion angle, etc, tend to steal some caster.
Similarly if a ball joint, or tie rod end, etc, allows some play, then that part can't hold the tire still against the road forces, and the tire will be wiggling between the amount allowed by the play.
Hope that helps a bit!
Thread Starter
JK Enthusiast
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
From: Marshall , Missouri
DEATH wobble, and speed wobble, are not always the same thing...the DEATH version should be reserved for the incredibly violent shaking (And visible if you look out the window at the front tires) of the axle back and forth, that threatens to rip the steering wheel from your hands, and is not "A vibration" or "a wobble" any more than an earthquake is a bump, etc.
That said, any aspect of your alignment or steering that creates an oscillation, can result in any degree of wobble.
That can be due to insufficient, or too much, caster for example.
If you ever saw a chopper, one of those motorcycles with the front tire waaay out front...you would have seen a lot of positive caster.
That makes the bike track nicely, and is great for long rides, etc.
The large positive caster makes the tracking very stable, as the parts are braced in the direction of the road force.
On the other hand, a very large positive caster also makes turn in, the ability to change direction quickly, slower, as all that straight-line stability is harder to make transition to a turn.
If you ever saw a wheeled office chair, the kind where the little wheels spin around, so when you roll the chair, the wheels swing around behind the leg of the chair they're on...and they tend to wobble along as you roll the chair....you would have seen a lot of negative caster.
So, if the bottom ball joint is not far enough ahead of the top ball joint, you don't have enough positive caster, and you can find that the tire wobbles like it does on the office chair.
For most jeeps, you tend to need more positive caster after a lift, as the lift and adjustments to pinion angle, etc, tend to steal some caster.
Similarly if a ball joint, or tie rod end, etc, allows some play, then that part can't hold the tire still against the road forces, and the tire will be wiggling between the amount allowed by the play.
Hope that helps a bit!
That said, any aspect of your alignment or steering that creates an oscillation, can result in any degree of wobble.
That can be due to insufficient, or too much, caster for example.
If you ever saw a chopper, one of those motorcycles with the front tire waaay out front...you would have seen a lot of positive caster.
That makes the bike track nicely, and is great for long rides, etc.
The large positive caster makes the tracking very stable, as the parts are braced in the direction of the road force.
On the other hand, a very large positive caster also makes turn in, the ability to change direction quickly, slower, as all that straight-line stability is harder to make transition to a turn.
If you ever saw a wheeled office chair, the kind where the little wheels spin around, so when you roll the chair, the wheels swing around behind the leg of the chair they're on...and they tend to wobble along as you roll the chair....you would have seen a lot of negative caster.
So, if the bottom ball joint is not far enough ahead of the top ball joint, you don't have enough positive caster, and you can find that the tire wobbles like it does on the office chair.
For most jeeps, you tend to need more positive caster after a lift, as the lift and adjustments to pinion angle, etc, tend to steal some caster.
Similarly if a ball joint, or tie rod end, etc, allows some play, then that part can't hold the tire still against the road forces, and the tire will be wiggling between the amount allowed by the play.
Hope that helps a bit!
Thread Starter
JK Enthusiast
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
From: Marshall , Missouri
First question... your JK still under warranty or they just being nice?
2nd. I talked to my buddy(jeep mechanic 20 + years) and asked about the balljoint thing. He said at most when you turn a corner or hit a bump you'll here the balljoints(if bad) make a clunking sound. Their moving obviously and need to be replaced. I asked because my steering has a little pulsating around 40 miles per hour. He never mentioned this would cause DW. I'm sure someone will chime in that knows way more than me but if not I'll call my buddy and ask
2nd. I talked to my buddy(jeep mechanic 20 + years) and asked about the balljoint thing. He said at most when you turn a corner or hit a bump you'll here the balljoints(if bad) make a clunking sound. Their moving obviously and need to be replaced. I asked because my steering has a little pulsating around 40 miles per hour. He never mentioned this would cause DW. I'm sure someone will chime in that knows way more than me but if not I'll call my buddy and ask
JK Super Freak
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,623
Likes: 5
From: Lawrenceville, NJ
Well, they can't hurt.
Of course, all FOUR being bad is odd in of itself...so, lets say for example if your CASTER was not positive enough, and THAT was making your rig violent, that could also shake the crap out of all the connected parts of your steering and suspension as well.
Ball joints would bear the brunt of a lot of that violence, and may be victims, rather than villains.
Then again, if all four DID commit harakiri/share a death pact with each other at the same time, the combined play of 4 bad ball joints would be enough to make things very loose up front, and able to oscillate a lot, etc.
There may be other collateral damage for example, like tie rod ends, etc...that would be great to check while you're under there etc.
My primary concern is that your caster is too low though...as you'd fix all the broken stuff anyway, but, if that's still off, it can all get trashed again, if the caster is the culprit.
sigh.
While you're at it, the toe can do a lot of the same thing.
Being a little pigeon toed is more stable, too straight ahead, or splay footed, is less stable, and can cause enormous wobble issues in of itself.
Typically, they get the toe decently when you get an alignment after a lift...but tend to leave the caster for some reason, like not having a convenient way to adjust it.
While its in the shop, have them check for other damage, and do a new alignment, including caster.
Of course, all FOUR being bad is odd in of itself...so, lets say for example if your CASTER was not positive enough, and THAT was making your rig violent, that could also shake the crap out of all the connected parts of your steering and suspension as well.
Ball joints would bear the brunt of a lot of that violence, and may be victims, rather than villains.
Then again, if all four DID commit harakiri/share a death pact with each other at the same time, the combined play of 4 bad ball joints would be enough to make things very loose up front, and able to oscillate a lot, etc.
There may be other collateral damage for example, like tie rod ends, etc...that would be great to check while you're under there etc.
My primary concern is that your caster is too low though...as you'd fix all the broken stuff anyway, but, if that's still off, it can all get trashed again, if the caster is the culprit.
sigh.
While you're at it, the toe can do a lot of the same thing.
Being a little pigeon toed is more stable, too straight ahead, or splay footed, is less stable, and can cause enormous wobble issues in of itself.
Typically, they get the toe decently when you get an alignment after a lift...but tend to leave the caster for some reason, like not having a convenient way to adjust it.
While its in the shop, have them check for other damage, and do a new alignment, including caster.
JK Freak
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 537
Likes: 0
From: My Jeep is NFECTED!!! Sedona bound-Someday
My trackbar bracket came away from the axle which caused my DW. Check to see if there is any fracture in the weld in that area no matter how small. Once that was repaired mine was fixed.
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Thread Starter
JK Enthusiast
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 314
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From: Marshall , Missouri
My jeep had wobbled real good twice before the lift both times after hitting RR tracks at sround 25mph.But after the lift it does it anytime one tire hits a pothole that the other does not.I went to get a alingment right after the lift.They told me the passenger side was set way forward than the driver side.Is caster up and down or front to back
JP magazine said the factory ball joints going bad could cause minor DW and a shimmy in the steering over rough or groved roads I notice that too.My jeep has almost 60000 miles on it.
JP magazine said the factory ball joints going bad could cause minor DW and a shimmy in the steering over rough or groved roads I notice that too.My jeep has almost 60000 miles on it.
Last edited by jhiero; Apr 7, 2010 at 07:16 PM.
JK Newbie
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento, CA
This is my first time to post. I have found a lot of good information on this site and felt it was time to add my experience with Death Wobble (I had it VERY bad). For anyone experiencing this for the first time I say - Don't Give Up. This problem is fixable from what I have researched and have experienced. The bottom line is that if you have it, there is something that has not been tightened properly or has come loose. My problem came about after installing a 2.5" Procomp Kit and then screwing with the kit by trying to drop my drag link and trackbar back to stock. I was concerned with the 5-inches that this kit raised my front end too. I highly recommend that one stays with only the components that the kit was engineered for.
Okay - sorry about the long story. My fix for the death wobble came about when I realized that the drop pitman arm was not tight on the steering box. I messed with the pitman arm while experimenting with my drag link and trackbar mentioned above. Although I could not detect any play in the pitman arm, I knew I did not properly reinstall the splined pitman arm. I took it to an alignment shop and asked the mechanic to reinstall my pitman arm - properly. Even though he did not believe this could be causing my death wobble, guess what - NO MORE WOBBLE!
Does anyone know the proper torque for the Pitman Arm attached to the steering box? I told the mechanic 185 ft-lb but it may be as high as 280 ft-lbs for Grade 8. Any suggestion on how to confirm this?
Okay - sorry about the long story. My fix for the death wobble came about when I realized that the drop pitman arm was not tight on the steering box. I messed with the pitman arm while experimenting with my drag link and trackbar mentioned above. Although I could not detect any play in the pitman arm, I knew I did not properly reinstall the splined pitman arm. I took it to an alignment shop and asked the mechanic to reinstall my pitman arm - properly. Even though he did not believe this could be causing my death wobble, guess what - NO MORE WOBBLE!
Does anyone know the proper torque for the Pitman Arm attached to the steering box? I told the mechanic 185 ft-lb but it may be as high as 280 ft-lbs for Grade 8. Any suggestion on how to confirm this?
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 172
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From: omaha, ne
