Please help with choosing lockers for my needs...
 

Hi friends. Im upgrading gears from my 3.73 to 4.56. I run 33's but wanted the option for 35's if needed down the road. My 2013 JKU is the automatic oscar mike edition with the 27-spline dana 30 front and 30-spline dana 44 rear.

Im not hardcore rockcrawling but use my rig as a dd and as an overlanding vehicle and would like to venture more into moderate to heavy trails (utah, nevada etc.) without being towed out each trip. Nothing extreme but want to be able access most trails in my rig.

That being said can you help me narrow down my options regarding lockers? Detroit trutac for the dana 30 seems highly recommended but what about the dana 44 for the rear?

I would like to have the locker set purchased under $1500 if possible.

Direct links much appreciated as Im a Veteran with a TBI.

Thanks for all of your knowledge from this forum.

I wouldn't lock the front. It'll last much longer if you leave it alone, and just regear it.

As for the rear, I would beef it up once and never look back. You can run 35 spline shafts in the rear standard D44 (Sport, Sahara, etc.). Paired with a 35 spline ARB locker, you'll have a beefy axle that can comfortably handle up to 37's. Then if you ever replace the front axle with something beefier, you can leave the rear alone.

35 spline shafts can be had for $400: https://www.northridge4x4.com/part/a...47-rd157-32-50

Paired with a 35 spline ARB for ~$1k: https://www.northridge4x4.com/part/l...-3-73-and-down

I can't say I recommend e-lockers. The Eaton 4-pin lockers aren't anything to write home about, I managed to break mine in under 2 years.

Again, I have to stress this: do not lock that D30. It'll shorten it's life span, and the axle isn't worth the money you're about to throw at it.

Thank you. For that ARB locker in the rear I would need
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...e1ea9f2968.jpg
this package with the compressor yes?

A pair of Detroit Truetracs.

https://www.northridge4x4.com/part/l...al-3-73-and-up
https://www.northridge4x4.com/part/l...-3-73-and-down

$935 Both front and rear for around the price of a single ARB locker (which still needs the compressor and new axle shafts...)

It's a pay once, cry once situation here. As suggested, I wouldn't throw any money at the D30 up front as that is the weak link. I'd suggest finding a D44 from a Rubicon for the front, and possibly the rear, and going that route. A locked rear will get you the most bang for the buck, and I'm a huge fan of the ARB products and customer support. Besides, it's always handy to have a compressor on the trail. Add a tank and air up tires, run tools, etc.

Throw a lunch box locker in the front...... yes even a Dana 30.
Hell you can wheel that and have a lot of fun. It will double or
more the trails you can go on. You need to go with a selectable
locker in the rear in my opinion. I personally like electronic
lockers better than air lockers. I ran Eaton E-lockers for years.

I also prefer using a CO2 tank....more versatile for other uses
around the house etc...

FYI, Northridge is having a sale right now where you get the compressor for free with the purchase of an ARB locker. Saw some email come across advertising it this weekend. I haven't price shopped though, so not much help beyond that tid bit.

Two is one, one is none. I've got a tank as well. Came in handy around the house when the CO2 tank on my kegerator ran out. I've also got fittings to plumb the tank into the air system on the Jeep to run the lockers in the event I have a compressor go down, which I've had happen, even with the twin ARB unit, while I was in Moab. ARB was awesome with support and warranty, but a backup plan is always a great idea as things break, tanks go empty, shit happens. :yup:


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...054ce91145.jpg

A tank should never go empty on the trails. I know how my much empty
tank weighs so before a trail ride I can weigh it if I'm not sure what's left in
it. I certainly made sure before Moab and Colorado that I had a full tank.

It probably needs to be mentioned that the OP is looking at the Detroit TrueTrac which is a mechanical LSD and not a locker. Thus, having a fully locked front axle should not be a problem if installing a Detroit TrueTrac.

I'm in this same boat and have decided eventually I will be going with Detroit TrueTrac LSDs front and rear instead of lockers which I feel will be best for my uses which sounds similar to what the OP is trying to achieve. I know everyone recommends to not invest too much in the front Dana 30, but the difficult decision becomes if you're re-gearing which the OP will be doing, everyone usually agrees it's best to add a traction device be it a LSD or Locker during that re-gear since you're already being charged for the labor for the re-gear which will be the same as adding a Locker or LSD.

The tough decision becomes in deciding to wait to do this by investing in a front HD Dana44 or use the existing Dana 30.
So if he's going to have to re-gear that front Dana 30 anyways, wouldn't it make sense for essentially the cost of the traction device to include it with the re-gear work? He's talking about an LSD and not a locker, so does that change things?
We're really talking about a $400-$600 additional cost of the traction device for the D30, in this case the TrueTrac LSD. Holding off to wait and get a HD D44, adds an additional $2500+ to the equation along with the labor costs of removing and installing the new axle.

The TrueTrac also doesn't need the air compressor, CO2, or any other additional items to engage it. It works by sensing there is a loss of traction on one tire and then automatically locks the axle to transfer power to the other side. That's the nice thing about an LSD, it's there when you need it and engages/disengages when you don't and you don't have to be concerned with the setup of getting the other items to lock a locker.

I don't see why you would want a limited slip in the front?
Granted I've never had a LSD. The lunch box locker in the
front only works while your in 4 wheel drive. So on road driving
is not effected. The first locker I ever had was a Spartan and I
loved it. Since then I've had Eaton E-lockers and I've had
ARB air lockers.

The one thing I'd say is that sometimes you might use 4WD while on the road (inclement weather and such...ice snow), and in that case you might not want to be "locked". If purely an offroad rig, I'd completely agree with your statement, but for something that is a daily driver and for someone that might not do heavy offroading, an LSD is actually a really nice compromise. I've wheeled with someone with that setup....LSD up front and locked in the rear. I was actually quite impressed with their capability....and usually the type of things I'm wheeling require lockers to some extent.....so it got a work out.

Many are pretty happy with the Detroit TrueTrac LSDs, and is likely the reason the OP mentioned it in his initial post, but probably didn't realize it's not a "locker" in the true sense of the word.

When I look at it in regards to a locker vs TrueTrac LSD front, I feel the benefit to the TrueTrac is that you wouldn't have the steering bind when turning associated with a Locker and a locked front axle, but when there is spin (loss of traction) on one of the front wheels, then that spin is detected by the Truetrac and it automatically engages and transfers power to the other front tire which is not spinning. It's all gear driven and has been known to be a much more robust system when compared to LSDs which use clutches and those clutch designed LSDs is what often gives LSDs a bad name. Essentially, I feel the Detroit TrueTrac is the best solution for those of us who daily drive our JKs in that it is on all the time and engages when you need it, and disengages when you don't...which is pretty much how a locker is used but the benefit to the TrueTrac is that you get additional benefits from it when driving at higher speeds on slippery highways.

In the case of the Detroit TrueTrac It's a "Torsen" differential. Jump to 6:00, where this guy explains how it works.

Curious to know if he let you drive it. I'ld like to know how it felt when turning and if you noticed any drag of any type with that front LSD.

Nah, I didn't drive it. He seemed really happy with it in general though. Jeep was his DD, and I'd say he would generally be a lighter offroader, but also the kinda person that was totally game to follow you through just about anything as long as they saw a couple people do it first.

Ok.....down here in the South we hardly just drive around in 4 hi unless there is the
occasional snow in which case you wouldn't notice the steering like you mentioned.


I need to remember that I'm not a rock crawler any more......LOL

I have Truetracs front and rear on a 13 JKU and don't notice any drag. I opted for them over lockers because I dont usually have tires off the ground. They have worked great in snow, on the beach and in NJ sugar sand. The best part is the rear is always there and I can go further in 2wd and dont have to worry about locking an axle.

Also with BLD and traction control the tires off the ground issue with the LSD are mostly negated. You can always apply a tiny bit of brake pressure to transfer the torque back to the tire on the ground.

To each their own, but that $4-600 additional for an LSD could be set aside for future axle savings, or used towards a nice selectable for the rear. You never recoup your initial investment, so if he plans on ever upgrading to a bigger axle (44, 60, etc.), he'll wish he hadn't bothered. My issue isn't with the traction device, but rather the $ being put into a D30.

But then again, my background in finance makes me anal about things like this. My ideology is more long-term, minimized losses. For some folks those few hundred dollars you lose is no big deal for some traction now. To each their own.

Personally I wouldn't stress a traction device in the front unless you're building axles you're content with, or spending a lot of time rock crawling or on slick trails. Usually the rear locker can get you out of anything, I hardly engage the front.

Various versions of this same story have been posted by our (former?) Dynatrac rep regarding his findings on the usefulness of the Detroit Truetrac type limited slip. This particular one was in a thread about Limited Slips, not lockers, I chose it just because it is the shorter version:

For what it's worth, I ran front/rear detroit lockers in colorado. Didn't like the front auto-locker on snow and ice, so swapped to a truetrac. A few years later when the rear axle imploded, I replaced that detroit with a truetrac also. For 'MY' use, which is not hardcare by any stretch, the truetracs were perfect, and much more user friendly onroad than auto-lockers.

It's really not a to each their own. I feel we're really saying the same thing but I'm taking it one further step backwards for everything you just described for the reasons you don't want to invest in a traction device for the D30. Why invest the $ into a regear of the D30? A regear just for the front will run you $700+. So what you just described for the reasons of not adding a locker or Detroit TT to the D30 no longer applies for the regear expenses? Why not put that $700+ for the regear towards the axle upgrade which already includes the gears you want just like you described?

When I've been weighing things out there's really 2 options to consider in the decision making process and other options just seem like foolish reasoning and puts you on the path of the non ideology long-term path as you describe.

Option 1. Front HD Axle replacement. More costly but gets you what you really want and will likely cost less in the long run. It will give you the gear size you want without paying for the actual regear expense on the D30.

Option 2. Regear D30. To me if you made the decision you're going to invest in the regear expenses on the D30 and justified going that route over replacing the D30 axle, then you might as well include the expense of adding a traction device with that regear so you actually gain something for that $ you decided to invest. Why make a half assed investment decision on the D30? It seems like a pinch a penny and waste a dollar decision approach.

Thanks! Great info!

Exactly. If you're going to be in there messing with a D30, may as well add some benefit, like a locker or LSD, at least something beyond an open diff.

I had a Truetrac in a '73 Blazer I had in high school and it left a sharp pain in my wallet and a bad taste in my mouth. Granted, this was more than a few years ago, but I went from 30's to 33's and 3.73's to 4.10's with a D44 up front, which I threw a Detroit Locker in, and a 12 bolt in the rear, which I added the True Trac to because there weren't that many options for limited slip as I was told. I ran it for a few months and the thing blew itself up on the road. They ended up warrantying the part after their inspection, but I was on the hook for the labor. I had enough and went back to the open carrier.

I'm sure their metallurgical processes have improved since I had mine, but I still see a bunch of moving parts that are prone to let go at what will likely be the most inopportune moment. It's the "automatic" portion of this design that make me nervous.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...302bb02ecc.jpg

As I originally said, I'm against any money invested in a D30:

However, people want to maintain drivability while saving for real axles. The need for gears is too subjective, and on 33's he's realistically okay on that D30. With that $1000-1400 spent re-gearing those axles, he can probably recoup ~$1000 when selling stock geared axles. Maybe more depending on the people in his area. Would I do it? Hell no.

I have always, and will always maintain the position of:

1. Don't put any money into a D30
2. Save for a real axle

That extra $ for a traction device really isn't going to add any real value to the average Craigslister looking for a pull-off D30. The gears will though, assuming he doesn't price the axles unrealistically high.

That's what I said:

Based off my original response, you can assume I'm against the $ for re-gearing it. You'll be out of less money in the long run. We have to assume he is going to re-gear if he wants to, none of us can stop him. Shops near me run $500 an axle now (parts and labor included).

This is actually the archetypal situation in which there is no perfect answer.

I strongly disagree with any $ thrown at a D30, others clearly don't think so. I strongly disagree with locking a D30, others disagree. I think Eaton e-lockers are trash compared to air lockers, others disagree. I think if he's going to be running 33's for the next 2-5 years and is light on the wheeling, the $1000-1400 re-gearing will make the Jeep more fun to drive, take some stress off the clutch/trans, and increase capability on the trail. Short term, with plans of upgrading the front axle within 1-2 years? Absolutely not, live with the stock gears. Lastly, I really don't see why you wouldn't cough up the last $300 for a selectable locker, seeing as you seem to regard $700 as pocket change.

I don't agree with this. Just because you re-geared your axles for drivability doesn't mean you should consider yourself married to that D30/those axles. Your rationale: if I blew my diet today, I might as well treat myself to a pizza. And ice cream. And cake because why not at this point right? Geared stock axles go for $1000 all day here, and they won't last 2 weeks. The built D30's (traction, truss, gussets, shafts) are plentiful, but they also don't sell because the sellers want $17-1900 for a built D30 (trying to recoup some of their "investment").

I don't believe re-geared stock open diff axles go for $1K like you're saying. Sounds like a fish story to me. I just had that exact same discussion on another forum and that was also everyone elses consensus opinion as well. Who wants a geared stock axle where that gearing has to meet the person's buying tire size mod plans and who would pay $1000 for a stock re-geared axle when it would cost them $500 in your area as you stated to have their own stock axle re-geared? You really have people in your area saying to themselves, "I'm going to pay $1000 for that D30 re-geared axle and spend the time effort to swap axles, when I could go to a local shop and have everything done for me for $500 and I will have brand new gears?" Something in the story you're trying to tell really doesn't add up. Selling a stock geared axle at least fits a larger amount of people's needs if someone is looking for a replacement axle.

Like I said, seems silly to me if you're going to re-gear a D30 to not add a traction device along with it if someone has made that commitment.

Throwing any money at a D30 seems silly to most of us as well as they just don't live, even with axle stiffeners, c gussets, trusses, and whatever other crap you want to try and weld on them. Off the pavement they're a time bomb and no amount of exterior mods will prevent the inevitable.

I'll keep my 60's and run on down the trail.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...16fd04cc63.jpg

Here's a D30 out of a buddy's Jeep. He's on 37's and this busted out in the middle of nowhere on a trail run. He wanted very badly to rebuild the 30 but ended up coming to his senses and put an aftermarket 44 on, which I don't know if it will live based on his tires and how he runs, but it certainly has a better shot at life than the 30 would have.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...69154a4f0.jpeg

Even at $1K for the pair it doesn't add up is all I'm saying. You seem to be getting upset so I'll just drop it and leave it at that.

Not upset at all, just enjoy debating is all. I wish I still had screenshots of the multiple sets of "gucci" sport axles I've seen sell within a week or two for $1000. I'm sure they haggled a bit, but people will pay for bolt-on convenience and no real Jeep downtime. A few searches on Facebook, and you can find some interesting things.

Sale pending:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...961f874c8a.png


Perfect example of depreciation, even with that $1000 locker:

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...3aa7cb87f6.png

This one won't sell for anywhere near what he wants:

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...93feb63996.png

And some people are just straight up clueless:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...ad55890229.png


The market is interesting. I've seen stock (with stock gears) axles sell for as cheap as $200 for the pair. Sometimes D30 pull offs are posted for free. Then sometimes, some clueless bastard comes along and buys a set of geared/built stock sport axles for way too many dollars. :eek2: