Notices
Modified JK Tech Tech related bulletin board forum regarding subjects such as suspension, tires & wheels, steering, bumpers, skid plates, drive train, cages, on-board air and other useful modifications that will help improve the performance and protection of your Jeep JK Wrangler (Rubicon, Sahara, Unlimited and X) on the trail.

PLEASE DO NOT START SHOW & TELL TYPE THREADS IN THIS FORUM

turning problems

Thread Tools
 
Old Mar 3, 2010 | 04:23 PM
  #1  
spastec's Avatar
Thread Starter
JK Newbie
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: Indiana
Default turning problems

I have a 2007 Rubicon with a 2 inch lift. I bought 35/12.5/17 Mud Terrain tires and had them mounted at the beginning of January. Since the tires were so expensive and the jeep has seen a lot of off roading and was never aligned after its roll over, I decided to get an alignment 2 weeks ago. After the alignment I noticed a little bit of the front tires fighting each other mainly on left hand turns. It drives fine on the straight away. The shaking of the front tires when I turn has gotten really bad the last couple of days so I decided to bring it back to where I got it aligned. The guy told me that it was the tires. I did not have a problem until 2 months later and the day I get it aligned the tires are going to start acting up. I don't think so. After 5 minutes of arguing that it is not the tires and getting no where I left. Here is what they got when they adjusted the toe:
The Front: Initial Final
Caster Left 2.3 2.6
Right 2.0 2.3

Camber Left -1.1 -1.1
Right -1.1 -1.1

Toe Left .30 .1
Right .35 .1

Anybody have any ideas on what is going on. I was not sure if it could be a wheel bearing or bearings. I was not sure if this is the right toe for those tires with a lift. I now feel the front tires wobbling on both right and left turns and it drives nice and the straight aways. I could actually see the tire wobbling when the gentleman took it for a test drive at the alignment place. He said tire rods and everything were tight. I was not sure if any of you have experienced this problem.
Reply
Old Mar 3, 2010 | 05:17 PM
  #2  
nthinuf's Avatar
JK Jedi Master
FJOTM Winner
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,463
Likes: 165
From: Austin <--> Colorado Springs
Default

The Front: Initial Final
Caster Left 2.3 2.6
Right 2.0 2.3

The caster is what jumps out at me, you're way low with only a 2" lift.
Check " Q: What is Caster? How much do I need? " in the FAQ's.

Also check this one. " Setting Your Toe-In " here:
http://project-jk.com/jeep-jk-write-...-end-alignment



Have you had the tires rotated and/or rebalanced?

Last edited by nthinuf; Mar 3, 2010 at 05:20 PM.
Reply
Old Mar 3, 2010 | 05:22 PM
  #3  
spastec's Avatar
Thread Starter
JK Newbie
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: Indiana
Default

The tires are only 2 months old.
Reply
Old Mar 6, 2010 | 08:21 AM
  #4  
spastec's Avatar
Thread Starter
JK Newbie
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: Indiana
Default

http://project-jk.com/jeep-jk-write-...-end-alignment

How accurate is this article because he says you want to toe in about 1/8 inch with a 2 inch lift and 35 inch tires. However, I am reading on this forum is you want toe out. Which is the correct setting.
Reply
Old Mar 7, 2010 | 07:37 AM
  #5  
spastec's Avatar
Thread Starter
JK Newbie
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: Indiana
Default

I called Fortec and they also said you want toe out. So I adjusted it toe out myself and problem gone. I will order up adjustable upper control arms to fix caster but it is drivable now.
Reply
Old Mar 7, 2010 | 08:03 AM
  #6  
wayoflife's Avatar
JK-Forum Founder
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 36,534
Likes: 16
From: Laguna Niguel, CA
Default

setting your toe out "can help" to give you the sensation that things are "fixed" just like a heavy duty steering dampener can. however, just because things feel "fixed" doesn't mean that they are. please try to understand that jeeps are rear wheel drive vehicles and toe-in is the proper way to go. as you move forward, the forces placed on your front wheels will cause them to push out and more parallel. on front wheel drive vehicles, you want your toe to be out as the forces generated by the wheels will cause them to pull in and again, cause them to be more parallel.

unfortunately, toe-out is a bandaid fix and while it will help make your ride feel better, i personally would try find and address what's really wrong. if you don't, they'll find a way to let you know that they're still there sooner or later and sometimes, with more things to fix. just my 2¢
Reply
Old Mar 7, 2010 | 11:25 AM
  #7  
thissideup's Avatar
JK Super Freak
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 1
From: tucson, arizona
Default

Wish someone could figer out what the heck is wrong with my front end!!! Been to 5 shops so far and no relief. I have replaced the steering arm, track bar, fliped my streering arm ball joint, killed 2 stablizers and one clock spring alignment after alignment and I still have wobble. The only thing that keeps it under control is toe out. The minute I toe in I have true death wobble....and it will not stop till the jeep stops. I just finished specing out all my bolts again and moving the toe back out from the last shop. That way I can make it home...I'm loosing lots of cash, time and what little is left of my mind. Tracks better at highway speeds toed in but god help me if I drive over a crack in the road at 40-45mph. Guess I just need to speed everywere and I'll be ok
I can see where death wobble leads to heavy drinking.
Reply
Old Mar 7, 2010 | 11:38 AM
  #8  
wayoflife's Avatar
JK-Forum Founder
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 36,534
Likes: 16
From: Laguna Niguel, CA
Default

Originally Posted by thissideup
Wish someone could figer out what the heck is wrong with my front end!!! Been to 5 shops so far and no relief. I have replaced the steering arm, track bar, fliped my streering arm ball joint, killed 2 stablizers and one clock spring alignment after alignment and I still have wobble. The only thing that keeps it under control is toe out. The minute I toe in I have true death wobble....and it will not stop till the jeep stops. I just finished specing out all my bolts again and moving the toe back out from the last shop. That way I can make it home...I'm loosing lots of cash, time and what little is left of my mind. Tracks better at highway speeds toed in but god help me if I drive over a crack in the road at 40-45mph. Guess I just need to speed everywere and I'll be ok
I can see where death wobble leads to heavy drinking.
don't know why you would have changed your steering arm (assuming you ment to say drag link) or why you would have flipped it's ball joint as i really have a hard time believing that they would have been the cause of your DW. also, if you did flip your drag link but did not relocate your track bar (as it would seem you did not), you would definitely have bumpsteer issues. also, steering stabilizers are just bandaids that just mask DW. you say that you've been getting alignment after alignment and i'm gonna tell you that they won't do squat to fix DW. more than likely, you have a suspension or steering component, bushing or joint that's loose or has gone bad. or, it's entirely possible that you have a track bar mount that's in the process of failing. if in fact you have filpped your drag link and have not relocated your track bar, that won't help matters at all. if i could guess, you most likely have one or more of the following problems:

1. loose track bar
2. wollowed out track bar mounting holes which allows for movement
3. bad track bar bushings
4. fatigued or failing track bar mounts
5. track bar that is flexing
6. worn out or bad ball joints
7. it's rare but, it's possible you have one front shock that isn't valving properly.
8. too little or no positive caster

whoever's been working on your jeep should have known better and checked these things. if they did not, i would take your jeep to someone else or do the work yourself.
Reply
Old Mar 7, 2010 | 11:45 AM
  #9  
goldtr8's Avatar
JK Super Freak
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,320
Likes: 0
From: WI
Default

Dont forget sticking calipers. That was my cause.
Reply
Old Mar 7, 2010 | 02:16 PM
  #10  
thissideup's Avatar
JK Super Freak
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 1
From: tucson, arizona
Default

Originally Posted by wayoflife
don't know why you would have changed your steering arm (assuming you ment to say drag link) or why you would have flipped it's ball joint as i really have a hard time believing that they would have been the cause of your DW. also, if you did flip your drag link but did not relocate your track bar (as it would seem you did not), you would definitely have bumpsteer issues. also, steering stabilizers are just bandaids that just mask DW. you say that you've been getting alignment after alignment and i'm gonna tell you that they won't do squat to fix DW. more than likely, you have a suspension or steering component, bushing or joint that's loose or has gone bad. or, it's entirely possible that you have a track bar mount that's in the process of failing. if in fact you have filpped your drag link and have not relocated your track bar, that won't help matters at all. if i could guess, you most likely have one or more of the following problems:

1. loose track bar
2. wollowed out track bar mounting holes which allows for movement
3. bad track bar bushings
4. fatigued or failing track bar mounts
5. track bar that is flexing
6. worn out or bad ball joints
7. it's rare but, it's possible you have one front shock that isn't valving properly.
8. too little or no positive caster

whoever's been working on your jeep should have known better and checked these things. if they did not, i would take your jeep to someone else or do the work yourself.
Let me explain a little better. I should have picked your brain earlier on this. I have a Teraflex 3 inch kit with about 4 inches in the front to level it out (teraflex spacer) and front lower control arms. I put on Rubicon Express set up with the new drag link/ flip, heavy duty track bar with the bracket that relocates the track bar and beefs up the attachment point on the frame side. This was all prompted due to DW. I found the old track bar had wobbled the bolthole on the axle side bracket. So when I did this we welded in washers to tighten things up. I went from DW to a shimmy in the front end but only if I keep the toe out. The crazy thing is I have gone through and tightened all the bolts to spec over and over. I have my lower control arms set up for 6 degrees of axle pitch. Basically the only thing I haven’t done is replaced the ball joints but I have no lateral play in the wheels when I lift the jeep??? Thinking of changing out the rims and tires on the front just to make sure it's not a gyroscopic force from bad tires or rim. I have spent hours on a creepy crawly looking at every weld point for shine or rust and every bolt/ nut for scrubbing on the brackets or frame. I think the hardest part is that every shop I go to tells me every thing is tight and in good shape but I know that something is wrong. Been thinking of taking the Jeep to Phoenix to 4x4 cop. see if they can chase it down??? Just feeling frustrated, kinda like being married lol
Reply



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:44 PM.