I have a 2011 JKU Rubicon with 58,000 miles which sees little 4WD use and the only mods include a 4 inch lift running on 35's.

Occasionally over the years the "hot oil" alarm would come on consistent with use (e.g. warm day going uphill) for which I would normally pull over and let everything cool down. Then about two months ago during an 80 mile drive along a coastal highway, the hot oil alarm started coming on frequently, each time I'd pull off the highway and allow everything to cool off (this occurred 4 or 5 times). When I got home I looked at the transmission fluid on the dipstick and it was obviously very dirty and brown. Soon thereafter I had the fluid changed (not flushed), the filter was not changed. At some point prior to this the check engine light came on but I failed to check the code.

After the fluid replacement the hot oil alarms went away, at least for a while. A couple of days ago in mild weather it came on again. I checked the codes, and there were four or five, one of which was P0740 "Internal Torque Converter Failure". So I took the Jeep to the dealership and here is what the mechanic wrote:

"Cause: Internal torque converter failure
Correction: Inspected vehicle found P0740 TCC out of range. Inspected fluid level and condition found it burnt. Completed test drive found torque converter intermittently does not lock up. Recommend reman transmission and retesting fluid contamination."

Verbally I was told that the torque converter probably came apart which would cause debris to get into all of the transmission and its appendages (cooler, hoses, etc.) and there is no viable means to clean or flush the debris and consequently all of the transmission and associated parts need to be replaced. They said it's more than $5,000 for the parts and with labor adds up to $8,000 or more. I brought the Jeep home and scheduled another appointment with a local reputable transmission shop for a second opinion. On the phone, the 2nd shop also said they concur with the dealerships recommendation, but "of course we'd have to open it up and have a look first".

Oddly, the Jeep runs fine on the highway and the 4WD hi/lo works fine too. It runs just as it did for all of the years I've had it and have never noticed any sort of "slipping". Also, after the fluid change I checked the trans fluid temp while driving and it was normal (can't recall the specific temp off-hand).

I would have thought the purpose of the filter is to catch debris, but maybe it's not in line with the torque converter? If an inspection reveals the crud did get into the transmission, I would still ask to have it cleaned to the best of their ability and replace the torque converter (and add a cooler)and roll the dice rather than lay out $8k. Not sure they would do this though?
Pardon the long winded story but wanted to get it all out there, and hence I wonder what would you do?

Thanks very much

 

Hopefully the lesson learned here is that “hot anything” warnings should not be ignored when you regularly receive them during normal driving. Root cause needs to be investigated immediately, else we end up here, contemplating an $8k trans replacement.

Your 4wd hi/lo is actually a separate module (transfer case) outside of the transmission so that’s good that it’s working fine, but isn’t really related.

Based on what you wrote, both shops sound generally correct: The extent of the damage won’t be known until the transmission is opened up. The most expedient and sure fire way to prevent any damage from debris is to swap the transmission for a good one. The cooked fluid probably didn’t help any of the clutches or bands, and at almost 70k miles with 35” tires and what sounds like maybe missed fluid maintenance, the trans is probably pretty tired anyway.

If this was mine: I’d pay the non-dealer shop to confirm the diagnostic and perform an actual inspection. But first I’d discuss options for replacement, in the event you are faced with a decision. Perhaps they are able to do a rebuild for cheaper. Or maybe they would be willing to put in a used (salvage) unit. Or
maybe their price/source on a reman trans is significantly cheaper. Their labor rate may be cheaper as well, I don’t know. Talk about options before they get elbow-deep.

It also sounds like the torque converter hasn’t completely failed. The Jeep sounds drivable, but it’s probably not a good idea to do so, if it keeps overheating and/or if there is debris in the transmission, it can cause havoc. It could block fluid passages or destroy clutches, etc.

Just as an FYI on any future Jeeps or transmissions. Running a lift and big tires adds a lot of stress to the transmission. At the very least, maintenance intervals for “severe” use should be adhered to, if in the past maybe you haven’t been.

Normal trans temps in general should be anywhere from 160-175 ish on the lower end to about a max of 225 on the high end with hard use, lots of shifting, or low speed situations like crawling. 250-ish and above really starts to cook.

 

8 Grand.. guess that is the Cali pricing.. here is the Rock Auto .. No labor .. Shop Around before you decide.

MOPAR R8037051AD Reman; Includes Torque Converter Info
SMPI Engine.; 4 Door; 4-Spd. Automatic VLP 42RLE Trans (Only 1 Remaining)
$2,929.79 $1,000.00 $3,929.79

 

Hey guys - that's great feedback and info, I'm grateful for your time and help.

As soon as I realized the issue it has remained parked except for the trip to the dealer.

 

I would take it to a good independent transmission shop for an inspection. If their is metal contamination it will show up in the transmission pan, most have a magnet in them to catch filings. they can also get you a reman transmission for less from a place like Jasper that has nation wide warrantee and support.
I just don't trust dealers in out of warrantee service. I had a customer take her jeep to the local dealer and they told her the vibration she had was failed engine mounts and that it would cost $2200. She brought it to me and it took about 1 min to find the exhaust cross pipe was hitting the skid plate causing the vibration. They even tried to scare her telling her to be very carful driving or she could ruin her motor when she picked it up.

 

I agree with you completely Dirtman. While of course the dealer mechanic could be "spot on" with his assessment, it seems like a leap of faith to recommend a complete replacement of the trans and all by only looking at the trans oil on the dipstick.
The Jeep is scheduled for an inspection by an independent trans shop on 10/13 and whatever they find I'll report back here.

Thanks for your advice and knowledge on the matter, very much appreciated.

 

Yeah that's insanely high especially for that particular transmission. I would always recommend getting a second opinion on a transmission if the vehicle is drivable. If not and you have to get it towed you are stuck with trusting what they tell you. I would probably get a reman with a warranty and have a trusted local shop install it

That being said I will stick with my manual transmission lol.

 

High price even for Kalifornia

 

Thanks for the comments Ryan and Dat.

The Jeep is drivable but remains parked until it goes to the appt on Thursday to a reliable shop in town. I know the price is insane and I still can't believe the dealership would base their final decision on a test drive and looking at the fluid on the stick. I have since looked at the fluid on the stick and smeared some onto a white piece of paper to examine it more closely and it doesn't look that bad. While it's not exactly pink as it should be it is not black or brown and if there are any particles in it they are not observable. Go figure.

 

This exactly. Find an independent shop and they can probably repair the torque converter, which is about $400 in parts plus labor.