Bueller

I'm curious - what percentage of Wranglers do you think are leaking, say, within the warranty period of 3 years/36,000 miles? My guess is 5% or less. The vast majority of them don't leak. Forums like this represent a very small cross section of overall ownership. So the argument that reading about a problem here - even a repeated problem - should serve as a warning that the prospective purchaser will likely have to live with said problem doesn't hold water (pun intended ) Again, I'm on my 5th Wrangler over 17 years. This is the first one that has leaked, and it wasn't a minor leak. It was a flood.

During my tenure as a Tech I spent almost 10 years often working with convertibles of many kinds. I've dealt with all kinds of wind and water leaks. I used to differentiate between a seep, a weep, and a leak. The first two were items I considered to be a normal and reasonable part of ragtop ownership. A minuscule wicking of moisture past a seal was ok, a drip that hung from a seal was ok, even a drip that ran down a glass - while borderline acceptable according to the manufacturers - was something I didn't get too worked up over. But when someone came in with a pool of water in the floor and moldy carpet it deserved a proper repair. I don't see why a vehicle that starts at $22,000 and runs north of the $40,000 mark with all of the options should be exempt from that same litmus test. Again, for those who don't agree that's fine. Don't fix yours and wear your water leak proudly if you feel so inclined. But don't trash someone who comes here looking for answers, looking to vent, or both. The OP has an issue. It isn't right. I wish I could help him. Obviously some others don't. Perhaps they should visit another thread instead of wasting their time here.

Yankee

But it is still well known a certain percentage of these tops leak. Should they? No. But they do anyway. Most people do eventually get it fixed. Through the dealer, fix it themselves, replace the top, or get rid of the JK (and the problem).

Or maybe they yank the carpet and have a wet floor.

But the OP even says he is venting. There is no detail of the problem to help with. He suggests a class action lawsuit, which I doubt someone else is going to spend the time and money to initiate for him.

He then goes on to mention switching for a Mustang.

Thats all good, but you seem to expect no one will reply unless it is with something helpful.

There is nothing to help with, so the thread invites comments that may be less than constructive for people to waste time on.

duneslider

I would be willing to bet it is far less than 5%. Jeep wrangler sales in Sept of this year were over 11000. That would be over 500 leaky tops just that month. This and every other jeep forum would be flooded with posts.

I do think its important to let dealers and Chrysler know about problems. I think you have every right to take advantage of warranties. I think any problem that can't be resolved quickly is annoying and aggravating. My jeep has not been exempt from problems and dealer visits, I feel mine have been a little more serious than a leaky top. My engine was basically toast at less than 60k. I had the random stall problem, jeep would just shut off while cruising on the freeway or while pulling into traffic and sometimes won't start unless I jiggle the shifter. One problem was fixed by the dealer after several years. One I just took care of. One still happens occasionally.

I guess what I always find interesting is when "master mechanics" come on here whining (venting) about little problems that they should be able to easily diagnose and fix if the dealer drops the ball a few times. Then talk starts about switching brands, never buying Chrysler, class action law suits, lemon laws, etc. Come on, a law suit because of a top leak, lemon law...good grief. We are talking about a little weather stripping not $3000 transmissions or mechanical or electrical problems that leave us stranded and needing a tow, or things putting our lives in danger.

If fixing the weather stripping yourself goes so far against your personal convictions that you would rather trade it in on a newer jeep then go for it. Sounds like the right choice for you. Maybe on the new jeep you can have them get the hose out and do a leak test before you buy it.

I could have traded in my jeep, they said they would give me a fair price even considering the engine. I felt I was more ahead to try and put a new engine in myself. I felt I made the right choice.

If you just want to vent maybe use the watercooler section or even jk talk but if you are wanting to fix the problem the stock forum would be a good place to ask questions and seek advice.

Just the opinion of a Jeep fanatic, hack mechanic and A-hole. By the way, I love Mustangs!

Bueller

You certainly make a valid point, but what I saw in his post was frustration with a vehicle he likes but doesn't know what to do with it. I've been dealing with frustrated vehicle owners for so many years at this point I tend to look past the frustration and focus more on he underlying issue that the vehicle owner is often not very good at communicating.

But one thing I am sure of is some of the posts are just a pile on by those who get enjoyment or entertainment out of other people's issues. I was that way at some point, but I guess I grew up a bit. I really try not to intentionally inflame someone who is obviously already frustrated enough and has a legitimate bitch.

ray101381

i was a little irritated as well when my 2012 with less than 3000 miles leaked a bit where the freedom top meet in the middle at the windshield. after readjusting them i think i solved the problem, but it's weird it was raining when i drove home after noticing the leak and not a drop only leaks when it's parked, i do need to mention it was snowing when it leaked. i heard if you use silicone lubricant on the gaskets that helps them seal. haven't tried it but if it leaks again this will be my next option.

plroussel

Don't buy a 2012, mine leaks! My 2010 never leaked, well just a bit in the rear tailgate, but that was no worries. My 2012 had three leaks. Been to the dealer three times, fixed two. I have at the a pillar, that dribbles water down the pillar to my dash, then, between the door and the dash, and onto my feet. The last time they had it for a week, scratched my hood, and freedom top panel. Left a razor blade between the seat bottom, and seat back &almost cut my hand wide open as I was cleaning all of the diry silicone hand prints that they left all over the inside of my Jeep. I think I need a new dealer!

Bueller

You said the magic words - FREEDOM TOP! No more hard tops for me.

I know there are some soft top leaks too, but the hard tops have even more seals to potentially leak. Additionally I believe they just aren't able to conform and flex with vehicle movement like the soft top can.

The rear window setup and inherent security of the hardtop is nice, but it isn't worth the price of admission. Too many quality issues.

duneslider

I actually think the soft top is the nicest one I have ever had on a jeep. I thought it was quiet and very well built. Not a single problem with it, loved the tinted Windows too.

Bueller

It really isn't a question of going against my personal convictions. During my 20th year as a Tech I was injured on the job and partially permanently disabled. I can still work on some stuff, but I'm a lot slower and often pay for it for days afterwards in the form of lots of pain. Though I keep my certifications current, that's why I no longer turn a wrench for a living. I've been very fortunate to find a new career, and I've invested all of my life (for whatever that's worth nowadays) so I can afford to own a vehicle I shouldn't have to work on beyond normal maintenance. I drove junk for many years. Those days are over for me, and I feel I've paid my dues both personally and professionally to the point that I should be able to drive something decent at this point in my life. While a new vehicle might have a problem or two and I'm ok with that, it should be fixable with a reasonable amount of effort, shouldn't require multiple trips back to the shop (unless they have to order parts), and shouldn't have to endure a defect that significantly and permanently affects the usability, longevity, and/or resale of the vehicle. I'll say it again - a deluge of water through a dash full of electronics is not a good thing, no matter how you slice it. Perhaps you see that as nothing more than the need for a bit of weatherstripping and a few minutes of your time. I see it as something I paid good money to not have to deal with. I believe the person who started this thread feels the same way I do. I don't suppose your approach or my approach is wrong, but my approach conforms to the new vehicle warranty agreement

As for me venting, that's not why I'm here. And I didn't start the thread. But I do understand why the OP did, and I don't blame him for it.

One thing I can never fault the Wrangler for is its excellent resale value. The cost of trading from a 2009 to a 2012 is very reasonable. So much so that I can afford to do so over something as seemingly insignificant as water intrusion, should I feel so inclined.

The suggestion to water test a new jeep might not be a bad one if I were going to buy another hard top, but I won't. I've owned three soft top jeeps and not one of them has leaked. Furthermore, while you might consider pursuing lemon law for repeated water leaks to be ridiculous, whether or not I agree with that again depends on the severity of the leak. If the glove box can serve double duty as a goldfish bowl, the tweeters in the dash are soaked, the windows are fogging up on the inside from all of the water in the dash, and the carpet smells like the ass of an elephant, well, that's a lemon law case. If the sum total of the water leak is a drop of water during the hardest rains, that would be ridiculous. I don't know how many flood victims you've worked on in your life or how many corrosion-related electrical gremlins you've chased, but I've done a bunch. While I was once very good at diagnosis and repair of such issues, it doesn't mean I want to live with them in my personal vehicle. That - among many, many other reasons - is why lemon laws exist, and why it is the consumer's right to use them. A vehicle should reasonably conform to the warranty provided by the manufacturer. When the vehicle fails to conform to that warranty and the manufacturer and/or dealer fail to provide a proper remedy, they only have themselves to blame. The law provides the rules of the game and the nature of the consumer's right to restitution up front. There are no secrets. During my last few years in the vehicle business (after my injury) I was in management and served as a liaison between the consumer and the manufacturer for many lemon law cases. Very, very rarely did I ever see a case where the dealer and/or the manufacturer did not make repeated, significant mistakes that allowed the situation to turn into a potential lemon law case. 95% + of them are avoidable if the people involved would just put in some effort and give a shit about the work they perform. Less than 5% are truly so deceiving and difficult to diagnose that a proper repair could not be achieved within the number of repair attempts or days out of service allowed by most state's lemon laws.

Yankee

The service floor quality and reputation is usually the primary deciding factor on where I buy, sometimes even what brand.

While having problems with a brand new vehicle that cost lots of money is bad enough, the irritant becomes a nightmare when clowns like the service floor you describe get ahold of it. In many of the threads I see fed up with Jeeps, the frustrations were compounded by uncaring or incompetent service floors.

Find another dealer, whatever it takes.