Chefbrujo

I wouldnt claim 2-3 mpg, but 1-1.5 yes. For me, over the use of a full tank that is a good $5 minimum per tank with 2 fill ups every 8-9 days it adds up.

As far as performance goes, it is noticeable but definitely not very significant numbers wise. But it is a significant difference in how it feels, and that's just as valuable as a number in my book.

Jeepstin12

just as this stated. The manufacturers of the vehicles have millions spent for optimal mpg, reliability, power delivery, etc. the makers of tuners don't spend nearly the amount of money and they aren't responsible for warranty failures. Many tuners require increased octane, which we all know costs more. In the course of a year, rough math $6/ week more for a full up per week is about $300+ over a year. This is considering 30 gal/ week. Well, for that "1-2 mpg gain", you not only spent a few hundred up front on the tuner but now burning premo, you are spending more on a fill up as well. Now, if you want to get 3-4 mpg increase, and you believe you can get that out of doing a CAI, tuner and exhaust, you will spend around $1k-$1200 for the initial set up. Now, burn premo, it will take at least 4 years (based on these rough numbers) to recoup the money spent on the mods IF you actually see a savings. Most Iikely, in that 4 years, you will see the additional $300 spent on the premo and very little offset in the way of saving. Let's assume the mods are done at around $1k. Add in $300/yr more for premium gas. Over 5 years, you've spent $2500. If you had an increase of 3mpg, you went from 15 to 18 mpg. For every 20 gallons, you went 60 miles further. You spent $6 more for that tank. For $6 now, you get 2 gallons more at $3 per gal for reg gas. So, your savings is the last gallon of $3.30(if you find premium just $.30 more. Factor this into the equation, about $3.30 a week in savings times how many week to get you return just to break even. $66/ year savings (considering all factors). From there, well beyond a 10 year mark to see a savings. More like 20 to see the return.

If your logic is to save money, keep it stock, don't tune, don't lift, don't do Mudder tires, don't add weight, etc., etc. as soon as you change anything toward performance, you are spending the up front money and additional money in maintenance, gas, etc.

Chefbrujo

Well, not sure if u and dirtman were directing ur posts directly to me.. But if u r.. I agree that it is a tiny gain in mpg and/or performance. I also agree that if u look at any gas/$ savings it is long term. I was trying to articulate 2 points about my point of view. (Forgive my approximations):
1) If i get a $300 tuner in january cuz iv got some extra xmas cash, then i run gas saver mode for a year, round my parts, a gallon of gas is $3.80-$4.00. With a 1.5mpg savings a full tank i can squeeze approximately 15-18 extra miles out of that full tank. 15-18 gallons is approx gonna be $5+ per tank. Now when, let's say 2 fill ups per week, that's $40/week. In 8 months iv saved the cost of the tuner. Not sure why that is considered by many to be a waste of money short or long term.

2)after switching tunes from gas saver to 91performance i obviously throw mpg savings out the window, and im fine that. Iv gotten my $ bak for the tuner in gas savings over the last 2 years. Now regarding performance, there is a slight gain and i notice no one argues that point, people just argue how much. I agree with most that it is small and "almost" insignificant. However, having driven the 3.8 before and after the performance tune, from personal experience it is noticeable. And let's say it is either the octane boost required to run the performance tune, (which i believe has most to do with it), or it is the tune adjusting throttle response, (which i believe plays a part but to a lesser extent than the octane), or the tune itself actually optimizes the engine to run with the 91 octane.

Now after having said all that, and spending $300 initially for gas savings, which paid itself off within a year, how can any performance boost(regardless of how small) be looked down upon when it is essentially free at that point?

And no offense to anyone here, i respect everyone's opinions, but i must ask if anyone here has a 2010 3.8 with a superchips flashpaq and have u run the gas saving mode and did the proper calculations to see ur savings (i did) and then eventually switch to 91performance tune and not felt a difference? That's what it all comes down to. We can throw all the math around we want, but real world experience should trump all opinion.

So in closing, lol. Id like to say that i feel a tuner for a 3.8 is worth it for mpg savings and is worth it for performance, but i will 100% agree that they are two completely different goals and u can't have both at the same time. But with a tuner u can always switch back and forth. As well as tune for towing or crawling, or check and/or clear ur DTCs, or adjust tire size for the cpu, or set idle
higher or set fan on/off for offroading situations..

TheDirtman

I was not referring to you personally. People do the same thing with CAI, trottle body spacers, exhausts thinking they are somehow improving the performance by simply bolting on stuff. If you truly want to improve performance or gas meleage after installing larger tires gearing and superchargers are the place to look. IF MPG is that big of a deal that you worry about it or can't afford it you really should not be in a modded Jeep Wrangler.