Warranty and Fear of Modification?
JK Super Freak
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,441
Likes: 1
From: Gilmanton Iron Works, NH
I got blown off by more than one dealer when the Jeep was bone stock. Chrysler's whole attitude to warranty service is to avoid it at all costs. Answer 1) We can't duplicate your problem. Answer 2) That's normal. Answer 3) We've never seen that before, we'll have to look into it with the Area Rep. And finally Answer's 4 and 4 1/2) Recall or Fawk You. So, in short, go ahead and mod it because it won't matter in the long run..........you were probably going to get the run around before you modded it anyway. Chrysler has adopted a warranty stance designed to improve their bottom line rather than your customer service experience and that is to sell you a warranty that they have no intention of honoring. And before someone says it............yes, I have a deep resentment of Chrysler Customer Service (there's an oxymoron for you). 
JK Freak
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 563
Likes: 0
From: KY
Here we go with the "Magnusson Moss Act" again.
This act is not something new as it was enacted in 1975, and basically talks about nothing more than protecting the consumer in the cases of deceptive practices by the seller.
So if you install a lift and run 35" tires, then break an axle shaft, you might have a tough time getting DC to replace it under warranty.
As many have stated from the hip, it would be the burden of DC to prove that your oversize tires caused the failure.
I'm sure DC could come up with the specs and capabilities of the axle.
Could you come up with any proof to the contrary.
There are 3 things that must apply in this "act".
As a warrantor, you must designate, or title, your written warranty as either "full" or "limited."
As a warrantor, you must state certain specified information about the coverage of your warranty in a single, clear, and easy-to-read document.
As a warrantor or a seller, you must ensure that warranties are available where your warranted consumer products are sold so that consumers can read them before buying.
For the OP, read your warranty booklet. It's pretty cut and dry on page 13 section 3.6. The next to last statement is pretty much a catch all.
"Your warranty does not cover the costs of repairing damage or conditions caused by any of the following:
Any changes made to your vehicle that don't comply with Daimler Chrysler.
There has been much talk about this "act, and many have "shot from the hip", with blanket and sometimes stupid statements leading some to believe this act is something magic for the consumer, and it is not. Most who have said things about this act have not even read the act, but are just passing on bits of information and smatter.
Here is a pretty good article about the act, and I would suggest it be read.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus01.shtm
Let's face the facts. Many like to modify the vehicles they have purchased, and not just Jeepers, although a Jeep is a great vehicle to modify.
But by the same token, one must be responsible in their modifications, and must also be aware of possible ramifications, and sometmes costly mistakes in doing some mods.
I hate to dwell on this however anytime we do a modification to our Jeep, we are changing the vehicle as it was produced from the factory. Lift kits, when installed correctly are not a bad thing and most likely will not cause any concern for a factory warranty, however the kit is installed so that one can install larger and heavier tires, and it is a simple fact of physics. By installing larger tires we are putting more wear on systems like the brakes, and drivetrain. Any undue wear or breakage of these components is dependent upon how big those tires are, and it would not be hard for an auto manufacturer to prove that running a vehicle that came from the factory with a max. tire size of 32", now running with 35' or 37", caused problems that incurred damage to the steering, ESP, brakes, wheel bearings, axle shafts, differentials, transmission, and even the engine.
The "Magnusson Moss Act", will not protect you in these instances, and it should not, as it was not intended to do so.
The bigest plus would be to have very good repore with your dealership.
This act is not something new as it was enacted in 1975, and basically talks about nothing more than protecting the consumer in the cases of deceptive practices by the seller.
So if you install a lift and run 35" tires, then break an axle shaft, you might have a tough time getting DC to replace it under warranty.
As many have stated from the hip, it would be the burden of DC to prove that your oversize tires caused the failure.
I'm sure DC could come up with the specs and capabilities of the axle.
Could you come up with any proof to the contrary.
There are 3 things that must apply in this "act".
As a warrantor, you must designate, or title, your written warranty as either "full" or "limited."
As a warrantor, you must state certain specified information about the coverage of your warranty in a single, clear, and easy-to-read document.
As a warrantor or a seller, you must ensure that warranties are available where your warranted consumer products are sold so that consumers can read them before buying.
For the OP, read your warranty booklet. It's pretty cut and dry on page 13 section 3.6. The next to last statement is pretty much a catch all.
"Your warranty does not cover the costs of repairing damage or conditions caused by any of the following:
Any changes made to your vehicle that don't comply with Daimler Chrysler.
There has been much talk about this "act, and many have "shot from the hip", with blanket and sometimes stupid statements leading some to believe this act is something magic for the consumer, and it is not. Most who have said things about this act have not even read the act, but are just passing on bits of information and smatter.
Here is a pretty good article about the act, and I would suggest it be read.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus01.shtm
Let's face the facts. Many like to modify the vehicles they have purchased, and not just Jeepers, although a Jeep is a great vehicle to modify.
But by the same token, one must be responsible in their modifications, and must also be aware of possible ramifications, and sometmes costly mistakes in doing some mods.
I hate to dwell on this however anytime we do a modification to our Jeep, we are changing the vehicle as it was produced from the factory. Lift kits, when installed correctly are not a bad thing and most likely will not cause any concern for a factory warranty, however the kit is installed so that one can install larger and heavier tires, and it is a simple fact of physics. By installing larger tires we are putting more wear on systems like the brakes, and drivetrain. Any undue wear or breakage of these components is dependent upon how big those tires are, and it would not be hard for an auto manufacturer to prove that running a vehicle that came from the factory with a max. tire size of 32", now running with 35' or 37", caused problems that incurred damage to the steering, ESP, brakes, wheel bearings, axle shafts, differentials, transmission, and even the engine.
The "Magnusson Moss Act", will not protect you in these instances, and it should not, as it was not intended to do so.
The bigest plus would be to have very good repore with your dealership.
Which is what everyone says. The warranty itself even says it, "caused by."
I'm pretty sure everyone understands it.
By the way, anyone can read the act and all about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act
Thread Starter
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 230
Likes: 1
From: Suffolk, NY
thank you for all the replies. I think the best piece of advice I was able to grab it the importance of the rappore with the dealership. Not that this will guarantee anything. When Im due for my 6,000 mile service I will speak with the guys and see what their feelings are with mods. I think that in the end Im just going to do what I want to do and roll the dice.
bubba
bubba
Super Moderator
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,746
Likes: 87
From: Arizona
The OP didn't give the impression that he knew about the Magnuson Moss act. If he did, I apologize to him for pointing it out.
I'm sure you have a legal background and have done extensive research on the topic - maybe even handled a couple of lawsuits yourself. I'm not a scum-bag lawyer (apologies to any JK-Forum members who ARE lawyers). However, I simply have mentioned "Magnuson Moss" to my dealer and he sang a different tune. If that helps others, great.
You must give long condescending replies to everyone who asks about how often to change oil, or what's the best bumper, or whatever else has been discussed at length on this forum. What the hell is wrong with giving some friggin advice??? Isn't that what this forum is about?? Isn't that what makes this forum fun??? "Here we go again" (read "I'm bored - yet another topic that has been discussed ad nausium on this forum) isn't exactly what I would call a helpful response.
By the way, the full title of the act is the "Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act", US Code - Title 15, Chapter 50. It's on the web.
JK Super Freak
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,699
Likes: 2
From: Lancaster Pa
Yesterday, 12:36 AM #1
bigtreads
JK Newbie
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kelowna B.C.
Posts: 12 recomend me some heavy duty ball joints
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mine are toast top and (nearly) bottom with 17 000 kms . I have a OME 3 inch with the heavy springs and 35" tires. Both dealers in town are sniveling due to the "lift" and won't do it under warranty so if I gotta pay I don't want the same junk and be right back doing them again in a year. Any one know of a 1ton joint that will work ??? they have to be grease able at the very least.
And this is exactly my point.
bigtreads
JK Newbie
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kelowna B.C.
Posts: 12 recomend me some heavy duty ball joints
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mine are toast top and (nearly) bottom with 17 000 kms . I have a OME 3 inch with the heavy springs and 35" tires. Both dealers in town are sniveling due to the "lift" and won't do it under warranty so if I gotta pay I don't want the same junk and be right back doing them again in a year. Any one know of a 1ton joint that will work ??? they have to be grease able at the very least.
And this is exactly my point.
Super Moderator
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,746
Likes: 87
From: Arizona
Yesterday, 12:36 AM #1
bigtreads
JK Newbie
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kelowna B.C.
Posts: 12 recomend me some heavy duty ball joints
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mine are toast top and (nearly) bottom with 17 000 kms . I have a OME 3 inch with the heavy springs and 35" tires. Both dealers in town are sniveling due to the "lift" and won't do it under warranty so if I gotta pay I don't want the same junk and be right back doing them again in a year. Any one know of a 1ton joint that will work ??? they have to be grease able at the very least.
And this is exactly my point.
bigtreads
JK Newbie
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kelowna B.C.
Posts: 12 recomend me some heavy duty ball joints
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mine are toast top and (nearly) bottom with 17 000 kms . I have a OME 3 inch with the heavy springs and 35" tires. Both dealers in town are sniveling due to the "lift" and won't do it under warranty so if I gotta pay I don't want the same junk and be right back doing them again in a year. Any one know of a 1ton joint that will work ??? they have to be grease able at the very least.
And this is exactly my point.
If only the lift was installed and the wheel/tires were stock, there would be no Cause and Effect. In fact, I've had drive line warranty work done with no pushback at all from the dealer about having the lift on. Of course, at the time I still had the stock wheels and tires.
Let's try to make this really clear. The dealer must prove the modification caused the issue. Period. Big tires = more stress on ball joints = warranty denied. Modest lift by itself = no change to stress on ball joints = warranty claim OK. If a dealer denies the claim on basis of the lift, he's all wet. If he denies on the basis of the tires, pretty hard to fight.
That's what people need to understand. Putting on a lift or bigger tires does NOT void the warranty on unrelated items. Back to my original example, if the windshield washer motor goes out under the warranty period, no lift or tire combination should have any impact on a warranty claim.
Thanks for the example.
JK Freak
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 816
Likes: 0
Here's a response in another thread about warranty concerns with simply performing your own maintenance.
https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/jk-talk-26/changing-your-own-oil-may-void-warranty-69495/
The response from the DC rep clearly indicates to me what has already been suggested above. Establishing and maintaining a good business relationship with a local dealership will go much further than screaming at an indifferent manufacturer. I myself have had every service for the last 6 months and 18,000 miles done at my purchase dealer and I have already walked away with free or reduced service, hella deals on accessories, free take offs, etc. I have also been told (for what that's worth, I'm no dummy) that a modest lift of 2" to 3" and 33's would not affect my warranty. I say I'm no dummy because I'm not going to run into the dealer and demand they replace my worn ball joints because of oversized tires. I think I have pretty realistic expectations. Just an example: I trashed my front driveshaft boot on a tree or something. I take in and explain what happened. Don't even try to push the warranty issue. I will pay out of pocket to have the DS replaced. To me, most of this warranty crap is common sense. If you mod your rig far from the manufacturer specs you are forcing equipement to operate outdside a designed limit. If that's the case then I won't be surprised or upset when shit breaks. From the sounds of it some individuals on this board would have been hollerin for it to be covered.
https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/jk-talk-26/changing-your-own-oil-may-void-warranty-69495/
The response from the DC rep clearly indicates to me what has already been suggested above. Establishing and maintaining a good business relationship with a local dealership will go much further than screaming at an indifferent manufacturer. I myself have had every service for the last 6 months and 18,000 miles done at my purchase dealer and I have already walked away with free or reduced service, hella deals on accessories, free take offs, etc. I have also been told (for what that's worth, I'm no dummy) that a modest lift of 2" to 3" and 33's would not affect my warranty. I say I'm no dummy because I'm not going to run into the dealer and demand they replace my worn ball joints because of oversized tires. I think I have pretty realistic expectations. Just an example: I trashed my front driveshaft boot on a tree or something. I take in and explain what happened. Don't even try to push the warranty issue. I will pay out of pocket to have the DS replaced. To me, most of this warranty crap is common sense. If you mod your rig far from the manufacturer specs you are forcing equipement to operate outdside a designed limit. If that's the case then I won't be surprised or upset when shit breaks. From the sounds of it some individuals on this board would have been hollerin for it to be covered.
Last edited by scottrock; Jan 21, 2009 at 10:42 AM.
JK Freak
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
From: palmyra, VA
Do a search on "Magnusson Moss". It's the federal statute that governs warranties on consumer products. It provides that it is the dealership's responsibility to prove that your modification directly caused to affected the failure you are trying to resolve.
Of course, if a dealer is going to give you crap about it, it's probably better to find another dealer than to try to fight for your rights.
Of course, if a dealer is going to give you crap about it, it's probably better to find another dealer than to try to fight for your rights.
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Like others have said, talk to your dealer. My dealer sells 09 2dr JKs with 4 inch lift kits and 35" tires dealer installed. Has two of them sitting on the lot right now. Talked to the service dept and they stated that 2 1/2" BB lift or up to 4" spring lift and they have no issues with it. Just waiting on the money now before I can play with the big boys!
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
From: Denver, CO
I've had the same concerns over the lifetime warranty. I understand the Magnusson Moss act, and that the dealer has to prove the mod caused the failure. The problem is, I don't have the time or money to to get a lawyer and fight DC if they say the lift caused my ball joints to fail and refuse to cover it. I think they know that most people aren't going to fight them on most denied warranty claims. Honestly, a lot of the the things that are being denied warranty probably are caused by the mods they have done and shouldn't be covered.
That being said, I have a Currie lift in my garage and as soon as my new rims and 35" tires arrive I'll be installing it. I've spoken to my dealer and have been told "if we're not positive what caused a failure, we'll cover it"
That being said, I have a Currie lift in my garage and as soon as my new rims and 35" tires arrive I'll be installing it. I've spoken to my dealer and have been told "if we're not positive what caused a failure, we'll cover it"