Next Jeep Wrangler Might Not Offer a Manual Transmission
 

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Jeep is modernizing the iconic Jeep Wrangler in 2018, and the big rumor is that the next generation JL will not have a manual transmission option.


Read the rest on the JK Forum homepage. >>

If this holds true...one more reason I'm glad I bought when I did. I've said it before, who woulda woulda thought 30 years ago, that the top selling Jeeps would be 4 door autos. Kinda a damn shame. But I'm just one guy. (or 3 out of 7)

Meh dont buy it

I haven't owned a Automatic Vehicle since 2003. Driving should be fun. Auto makes it boring. If the time comes when they don't make a Manual Jeep I will pay extra to convert it to manual or Just buy another type of Vehicle New.

Agreed. It's pretty sad.

Happy I got my JKU Willy's with the 6 speed then.

Have never personally owned an auto but i do drive one at work on occasions and it is pretty boring and i look like a retard always trying to reach for a shifter that isint there or stomping on the floor trying to hit a clutch that dosent exist either. No sir i dont like em : P

Manual.
 

Count me as one of the owners who's glad he picked up a manual before they stopped selling them.
My manual and color combination was why the local dealer had to drive 5 hours one way, to go get my Jeep from another state.
It was a manual HR or no deal.

Like others I think a manual is just more fun to drive and lets you feel more like you are part of the experience not just an observer.

Made my teen learn to drive a manual as well. Her first car was a manual and so was the second.

Tragically, it is indeed becoming a lost art.

bad mistake if they don't offer one

My 2012 JK has a 6 spd manual as my 2010 did. My wife's 500c has a manual too.

But truth to be told, I have been thinking about my next Wrangler being an auto. Manufacturers have been wimping out on manual transmissions lately and dealer techs with knowledge of how to fix a manual are becoming extinct.

My 2005 GTO 6 speed manual had to be replaced because of a dealer's tech error and it was a PIA to get GM to warranty it.

I have read about way too many problems with the clutch, TOB, master cylinder and grinding of the JK 6 speed to care for another one. The NSG370 is at the limit of torque and power with the 3.6 and they would have to limit power for manuals if they continue to use it or develop an new one just for the Wrangler.

Fiat finally announced a recall (likely forced by NHTSA) to repair many manual transmission 500 s. A problem for the owners because manufacturers use the clutch as as scapegoat to deny manual transmission guarantees. It is a wear item.

Automatic transmissions are now more efficient, handle more torque, techs are easier to find, remote starts are much easier to install with one, easier to get warranty service approved, even engine swaps are easier and cheaper.

As I said, my JK has a MT but it's hard to argue with reality.

Love my 2008 Sahara manual
:thumbsup:

Just another step away from the heritage of the classic Wrangler...

Although Chrysler has responded to owner outcry in the past (I'm looking at you, manual t-case shifter)

Maybe if enough people contact them; they'll hang onto a manual option...

You'd think the Italian's would appreciate a manual transmission.

What's Italian for "keep the manual trans" anyway???

:thinking:

Although not a direct translation, I think what you want is "trasferimento in Italia". ;)

Americans in general have stopped buying manual transmissions. In Europe and elsewhere around the world they are far more common, so much so that even today if you rent a car in Europe, chances are it will be a manual.

I think it's pretty clear that the expansion of the market of the Wrangler beyond the traditional narrow segment of users with legitimate off-road needs includes drivers who prefer automatics by overwhelming margin, probably nearly 100%. And more importantly to FCA is new/young buyers also generally cannot drive a manual transmission, so going forward, there is little future in building manual gearbox cars in general unless they are marketed into a very narrow niche where the majority of buyers happen to prefer manuals. For example, Miatas will still be almost exclusively manual for the foreseeable future.

Now, FCA is uniquely anti-manual-gearbox and it's mystifying to people like me. The Alfa 4C, for example, is not available with a "proper manual gearbox", even though the segment where it is marketed is dominated by manual-gearbox cars. It would be unthinkable for Lotus next generation Elise to not include a manual, or even to include any other option besides a manual, and that's a direct competitor to the 4C. And Porsche has never been so foolish as to eliminate the manual from their cars' lineup even though they maintain that the PDK cars are faster. Sports car buyers prefer manual gearboxes, but FCA seems to be blind to this fact. Either that, or they are intentionally avoiding marketing to enthusiasts and presenting a semi-exotic sports car that they fully expect to be mostly driven by wealthy housewives or trust-fund millennials, which then makes you wonder why they don't deck it out with cup holders, heated seats, or, you know, A MUFFLER.

It seems that with the expansion of the Wrangler into the 4 door market and the brand appeal to non-offroaders, Jeep is slowly turning its own vehicles into mall crawlers. Or maybe eventually owners will bail bc of the market saturation. I would never own a Prius bc of the douchey stereotype that goes along with it. That, and it looks like a doorstop. Apple finally ran it's product line into the ground by sacrificing user needs and wants in exchange for trying to put as many products in every household. It's become more of a "brand" than a line of desireable products. Hope Jeep isn't following their business model. You know, like doubling their productivity in the next few years. Which is one of their goals.

Sadly it's not only FCA that is anti-manual, Porsche stopped offering the track focused GT3 with a manual because it's slower, Ferrari nor Lamborghini have offered a manual in many years, basically no supercar comes with a manual transmission, even as an option, McLaren, Koenigsegg, Maserati, etc. None. Car and Driver reported that by 2011, Mazda was reporting that manual transmissions still dominated, but more than a third of softtop Miatas (37 percent) and more than half of the retractable-hardtop cars (59 percent) were sold without a clutch pedal. I'm sure it's even closer to 50% total now.

All manufacturers have a business case they have to follow, and offering something that almost nobody buys makes no business sense.

I forgot about that.

I'm not sure that trend continued in that direction, but it would be interesting to see the data on the NDs. Note the difference in soft top vs. PRHT... almost twice as many (as a percentage) of the PRHT were sold with autos vs. the soft top cars. The ND is not offered with a PRHT. The NC was physically larger and noticeably heavier than the NBs, and it seems that entire product line was moved more towards the mainstream and it's not surprising that the take rate on automatic transmissions was much higher than in the lighter, smaller, simpler cars. The new ND returns to lighter, smaller and simpler, and I would think it would begin to exclude some of the buyers who prefer an auto along with a PRHT, power seats, etc.

BTW I would also point out that sales numbers of the NCs was also way down compared with the previous generations. So while the percentage of autos may be up, overall sales of the car were way down. I expect a return to a more true form of roadster might result in improved sales numbers and also more percentage manual transmission.

Well it's not offering something that almost nobody buys. Even if manuals are only 10% of the Wrangler sales, that's still a huge number (I don't know the number). But the point is there is a big cost to offering it as an option and they are more likely to take the hit on sales once those sales numbers get small enough to not offset the cost. Looking at it the other way, if Mazda only sold 10% manual transmission Miatas like they did in the 90s, then it may very well make sense to drop the automatic as an option... Lotus never even offered an automatic of any kind in the Elise because their numbers are so low that the marginal demand for an automatic transmission is not worth the engineering, inventory, etc. cost.

JK forum frequents seem to be opposed to FCA making good business decisions if it disagrees with their personal vehicle preferences. I have a manual Jeep and I wouldn't have bought one if they only made automatics. No big deal, and I wouldn't fault FCA for dropping the manual if there is only marginal market for it, but I just have to buy something else. I won't get mad at FCA as if they are "ruining" Jeep. They are keeping Jeep alive by letting it adapt to the market. If they still made 4.0L 2-door manual TJs as the only option, then Jeep would have gone out of business as a brand a long time ago.

This is a good article: http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...l-transmisson/

And the point here I think might apply to the Wrangler as well is about the GTI, they point out that when the clutchless version was first offered, the sales of the car doubled, but the number of manual transmission cars stayed the same and actually grew. Now, the real question is, has the number of manual transmission Wranglers sold actually gone down? Or is it just that since so many more Wranglers have sold, most of the new-segment buyers choose the automatic so as a percentage the number of manuals is down, but as a raw number is it down? Maybe not? I don't know and I don't have the time to research the numbers.

Great article. You just have to know where to look. I'm glad I looked for, and found mine 2 years ago. Because in another 2 years, I'd have to look somewhere else. I love my Jeep more than I like most of the people I know. Just wouldn't be the same if it was a "point and go".

At least Apple still makes good products (for now) . LOL...

I agree with your comments about saturation. IMO...FCA is churning out a lot of crap and is looking at Jeep purely as a quick and easy cash cow. They are slapping the logo and grill on as many cars they can and and are getting away from what the brand is about.

+1 to this...

That's what conclusion I came to the first time I saw a new Renegade...

Take a POS vehicle, slap JEEP all over it, and it's automatically more capable right?

Yeah, we've seen how that worked out in the past...

I'm looking at you Compass.

Last year, Apple was the most profitable company on earth. Can't really blame other companies for trying to copy them.

I like the Renegade and I don't think it was just a re-badge job for FCA. Its main purpose its not to be an off roader but to my knowledge its more capable than any other CUV including it's sister the 500X.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Snvsw5Z8c7M I'm not alone here, Renegade sales are very good especially compared to the Compass.

Jeep Renegade US car sales figures

Jeep Compass US car sales figures

This is exactly what the motor vehicle industry wants and thats do away with manual transmissions. They make it convenient from them by making it difficult for us to repair or have it covered by warranty. Automatic means the onboard computer is now fully in control of the vehicle you're driving. I do not need a vehicle that can park its self or brake by its self let alone change my gears for me, I can do all that myself. Just keep in mind that vehicles have been HACKED leaving the operator of the vehicle totally helpless.

I really don't think that's even remotely related to the problem. It really is an issue of demand and economies of scale. The automakers just want to maximize profit, plain and simple.

In the past, there was both a performance and fuel economy penalty to automatic transmissions, so making the manual transmission come standard helped boost the fuel economy rating of cars and trucks. But this is largely no longer the case. So then it comes down to demand vs. cost of inventory. If the demand for manual transmissions is high enough, then it makes sense to build them and keep them in inventory. But there comes a point where the cost of capturing those customers who prefer a manual will be higher than the revenue they get by selling to that number of customers, and at that point it only makes financial sense to eliminate the manual from the options list. Costing customers is acceptable in this case, since those customers were not profitable to begin with.

The fact that the Wrangler shares transmissions with other vehicles adds greatly to the pressure to remove manuals from the lineup, since most of the other vehicles that share the automatic of the JL will not be offered with a manual because there is nearly zero demand. So if FCA is going to make 350K cars a year that are equipped with a specific automatic transmission (JLs included), and only 10K JLs a year with a manual, then that's only 3% of the total transmission inventory... hardly makes sense to keep manufacturing that part when it only accounts for 3% of the compatible transmission output.

The fact that there is no real viable alternative to a Wrangler, FCA also probably figures new JL buyers will likely still buy an automatic JL even if they would have preferred a manual, since there is no other segment choice. Now, if Land Rover ships Defenders in the USA at a reasonable price and with a manual then maybe FCA will have to rethink this plan as some of their buyers peel off and buy LRs instead. But the thing is, 10K/yr sales of LRDs in the USA would be huge numbers for LR, so even this probably wouldn't make a difference. It'd have to be a major player like Toyota offering a competitive product.

That's still true for your manual, about the hacking. You know the throttle is electronic, right? You can't even start the car without the computer operating. And your JK's computer can already apply the brakes, which is a good thing in many ways (BLD, ETC). However, the computer can't disconnect the direct hydraulic brake feature, but ABS can prevent braking. We're already way, way down that slippery slope, and we have been for two decades now.

More alarming is that self-parking requires computer control of steering, and even if you have a manual, the vehicle will be guaranteed to be equipped with the hardware and computer facilities to control steering, even though the parking feature will not function. Now, it wouldn't be able to override your steering inputs, since the wheel is still mechanically attached to the steering column. But it would be able to perform automatic steering and potentially steer where/when you don't want to. If it were hacked.

Anyway, this is a big side discussion and I don't think it has anything to do with automatic transmissions. I think two or three major things are leading to the demise of the manual transmission for Jeeps. 1) the Wrangler demographic has steadily been increasing, and mostly increasing to include people who (in America) tend to almost exclusively prefer automatics; 2) for a couple of decades now, most new drivers have not learned to drive a manual in America, 3) automatic transmissions have improved to offer durability and performance on par with or better than manual transmissions over the past decade. What this adds up to is decreased demand (as a portion of total demand) for manual transmissions and virtually no future marketability, at least for Wranglers, for manual transmissions.

This won't be true for every market segment, but it seems obvious that within 5-10 years Wranglers will be driven mostly by the typical SUV buyer and will be 100% automatic transmissions.

MR72,

Great post. Finally someones presents FCA, Jeep and the Wrangler as a company that only wants to make money (nothing bad here) and a product that needs to be sold to as many people as possible and not a mythical unicorn that can never be changed too much because of it's history (I'm sure this discussion comes up every single time the Wrangler is redesigned...).

Sorry but this the complete opposite from reality. New automatics handle more power and torque than manuals and if something breaks in an automatic, the manufacturer will have a harder time proving why it can't be covered by warranty than a manual.

Simply read here how many have problems with their throw out bearing, clutch, master cylinder, etc. vs. with the 5 spd auto.

Thanks. You know some JK enthusiasts on this forum routinely seem to come out of the woodwork, seemingly intent on making sure Jeep remains a super niche market product, FCA shouldn't ever put any features on it that increase the appeal to a larger group of people, or really make any Jeep product that is palatable to a broad user base.

I get it. We want to feel special. We are exclusive. We want our Jeep to make a statement that says something about us, that makes us special, and we want that statement to be something like "I am a hardcore off-road driver" or "I am tough and I can take anything the world dishes out" or "Only me and the select few are really tough and cool enough to handle a Jeep". But the problem is that will kill the Jeep brand if FCA thinks it's a good marketing strategy. The truth is right now, a JKU makes the statement, "I'm a mom and I like outdoorsy-looking accessories like this tough-looking Jeep when I go to the mall in my trail running shoes, tights and North Face vest so I look all cool and outdoorsy". Because there are a ton more people that fit THIS demographic than there are those who will sacrifice convenience, comfort, reliability, performance, etc. because they absolutely have to have a vehicle that will drive through anything.

Jeep is not a specialized niche brand. It's a broad-appeal SUV, even Wranglers. That doesn't mean a Wrangler (or a Renegade or a Cherokee...) is not capable of off-road adventures, but they happen to be capable of on-road use as well and since they are reasonably comfortable, safe, affordable and convenient, there's a very broad appeal and FCA sells a ton of them to everybody.

I remember when the iPhone first came out. It was an expensive luxury item that only the cool kids would buy, much like an Apple Watch is now. But now it's so ubiquitous that you might be surprised to find anybody over the age of six who does not have at least one, and as much as anything it's become a fashion statement. And frankly a Jeep is now just as much a fashion statement as it is anything else. It's actually one of the reasons I kind of regret buying one. But since the actual utility of a Jeep is almost completely unnecessary for virtually everyone including me, it's hard to avoid the fashion element.

I've put 3 clutch kits in mine and another throw out bearing over the weekend. I've iwned exclusively manual transmissions and I'm very much ready to move on. Too much bullshit to put up with and break. Also it sucks my wife can't drive home after I'm drunk, that leaves 3 choices for country concerts: take a Nissan Sentra, don't drink, or risk a dui. Shit, shit, and shit.
Also if you've never taught a woman to drive a stick, don't comment on it... It's a quicker path to a divorce than cheating.. Lol

One of the three must be true:
a. Chrysler put the world's worst pice of junk OE clutch in JKs
b. You have driven half a million miles in your JK
c. You need to improve your skills driving a manual

My money's on c, but I suppose a is possible.

Somehow, I don't think this is a problem most of us deal with. Don't drink is a pretty solid solution when you have to drive. In fact it's pretty much the only option.

I've taught a bunch of people to drive a manual, including both of my daughters, my son-in-law, some of my daughters' friends... but I didn't have to teach my wife, she knew how when I met her, because like most of us Gen-X kids, she had to learn to drive a manual transmission car or she wouldn't have been able to drive at all in high school.

My dad taught me when I was 9. That was pretty normal for us kids growing up.

But it's not really hard to teach someone to drive a manual. It would be way harder in a Wrangler than it was in the car that I used to teach my daughters.

most cant be bothered with shifting now days that would hinder their texting and other shit they do instead of paying attention and just driving their vehicle.

That's true. But for me, it's the opposite!!! I drive a 6 spd Wrangler that is usually top down. So I have no choice but to enjoy the ride. Can't talk on the phone or text. It can wait. Jeep on.

I taught my Wife how to drive a Manual. She burned the crap out of my clutch learning but she did it. 2 days and she was a pro. Also have you ever cracked open a automatic transmission and tired to fix it? Probably not because there is a ton of crap in there that needs to be rebuilt. Repairing a Manual transmission is way easier to repair.

As for the Drinking part yes I get buzzed and tipsy there is nothing wrong with that as long as I stay away from operating heavy equipment/vehicles. All the money I have spent on beer I could have bought more stuff for my Jeep though... oh well I'm off to crack open a nice cold :beer::beer::beer::beer:

A is more likely than you think. The JK and specifically the NSG370 are notorious for having incredibly poor TOB's. I've owned two manual JK's and both had to have work on their transmissions thanks to Chrysler's lackluster quality well before the bumper-to-bumper warranty. My '12 leaked so bad I had to have it towed because most of the tranny fluid was either caked underneath the Jeep or on the floor of my garage. My current '14 Jeep is the first automatic I've ever owned and that's largely because of how frustratingly awful the 6-speed is. It seriously should've died with the TJ.

I understand the noisy, rattly, and awful shifts of the JK stick are supposed to be considered charming elements of the experience, but the use of the NSG370 is an absolute joke in a vehicle that now typically starts at $30k.

I miss driving a stick. I do NOT miss driving a stick in a JK.

My JK was a Sport. The only option was the U-connect, so I get more info from the computer than the rest. But that is it. Hand crank windows. Manual seats. And mirrors. And that's how it should be. Paid $26k. Only got 2 doors. But that's EXACTLY the way I wanted it.

This thread has made the "news". LOL


http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-on-the-forums

The venerable Jeep Wrangler is set for "modernization" next year, and one of the rumors that's been circulating is that the manual option might be a goner. The loyalists on JK-Forum think that'll turn their favorite rig into just another "mall-crawler."

lol. New 2018 jeep wrangler Mall Rated.

Front runners for the new badges... :)

I'd still like to see a manual, but an improved one. I had a squeaky clutch fixed at 17k, a TSB fixed first gear popping out, and the slave cylinder crapped out at 90k. Outside of that, it has been a nice shifting and quiet transmission, and I've enjoyed it thoroughly. My wife has no trouble driving it, and my older kids will learn to drive a manual on it.

I've towed campers and boats for many miles, too, so while I've had a couple issues, I'm not writing it off as a bad unit at this point. I'm still on the original clutch, and it feels good, so that's not too bad at 103k miles.

I hope they offer a manual on the new Jeep, but if not, I guess I'll deal with it. I'm keeping the one I've got even when I buy the new one, thanks to the Lifetime Warranty on it.

the 2nd one has my vote. some of those speed bumps are hell and dont even get me started on the curbs.

I agree.. It will really highlight the awesome new suspension articulation as well. LOL

0wned 4 wranglers
1 cj
2 tj's
1 jk
never had a problem with the manual tranny or clutch
when i went into the woods i drove knowing the only way out was driving my jeep out alone