No Ass now
02-28-2009, 08:46 AM
#21
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They are doing a complete swap of my internals into the new housing....so lots of labour......... plus all my bearings in the pumpkin are fried and have to be replaced.. plus ,my outer U joint and axle shaft on the drivers side sheered in half as well ... when I drove it out.. so that needs to be replaced + + + + + so the $2100. is disappearing far far away. and becoming 2500 ..... National sent me my replacement Steering dampener and front shock yesterday (thank God for their sale right now... Frig this is really becoming expensive...
Ready to cry boys and girls..
Zeb
Ready to cry boys and girls..
Zeb
Let me tell you a few things:
The warranty hours that a job pay is always less than when it's a customer pay. When it's a warranty job, the OEM gives the parts to the dealer for free. When it's customer pay, they sell you the parts at a mark up. And the mark up is huge. No joke, the markup is typically 1000% to the customer. Not 100, 1000. I know this because I was an automotive engineer and I know what my own parts cost was to the OEM, and the customer. The dealer gets a huge chunk of the markup.
Not only is Chrysler incentivized to deny the claim, but so is the dealer. Sounds like the dealer is being good by paying for half, but I GUARANTEE you he is still making money off you.
What, they say it's an 8 hour job at $80/hour? Guess what, it'll probably take 5, and they only pay their guy $20/hour. So they claim it's $640 in labour, but it's only costing them $100. They tell you they'll do you a deal at $320, you're still getting screwed.
If they say the axle is $3000, the real cost to Chrysler is $300, and probably $1500 to the dealer.
The Jeep is marketted as an off-road vehicle. "Trail Rated". They advertise this is what it's made for, they can't claim the warranty is void unless they specifically tell you it will void the warranty.
No other vehicle in the history of EVER has had a problem like this with shearing off axle tubes. That's crazy. This is a design or manufacture problem.
Which brings me to another point. I was an engineer at Dana in a division doing the underhood plumbing. I sat beside Mark who designed most of the stuff on the JK. I did the grille bracket behind the grille of the Ram, some of it's plumbing as well as minivans, and Durango, as well as some other manufacturers. There was a problem staring back in ~2005 during the "steel crisis" where we were getting really shitty steel tubes from the mills. The problem really only existed for DCX programs because their steel specification was not really as good as the others.
I wonder if this is related to these Dana axle tube failures. In fact, the exact reason was excessive concentrations of carbon at specific locations in tube. Overall the carbon composition was correct, but it wasn't uniform, and there were these carbon inclusion which caused brittle failures in tubing that should be ductile, which is EXACTLY what it looks like the failure you have.
If you want to take this to the next level, I'm available for testimony. Sometimes I think I should become a Canadian Automotive Consumer Advocate because it's things like this that INFURIATE me.
In any case, let this be a lesson to you all...
If you use your Jeeps off-road and have a failure, they won't cover it. If... say you were to be "responsible" and drive to location and say... just go for a ride along with some of your buddies, and on the way back from the location your axle failed and caused you to run into a ditch... then you're covered. Think that sounds fair? Think about it.
Just sayin. It's a dog eat dog world out there.
02-28-2009, 03:36 PM
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02-28-2009, 03:53 PM
#25
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No other vehicle in the history of EVER has had a problem like this with shearing off axle tubes. That's crazy. This is a design or manufacture problem.
Which brings me to another point. I was an engineer at Dana in a division doing the underhood plumbing. I sat beside Mark who designed most of the stuff on the JK. I did the grille bracket behind the grille of the Ram, some of it's plumbing as well as minivans, and Durango, as well as some other manufacturers. There was a problem staring back in ~2005 during the "steel crisis" where we were getting really shitty steel tubes from the mills. The problem really only existed for DCX programs because their steel specification was not really as good as the others.
I wonder if this is related to these Dana axle tube failures. In fact, the exact reason was excessive concentrations of carbon at specific locations in tube. Overall the carbon composition was correct, but it wasn't uniform, and there were these carbon inclusion which caused brittle failures in tubing that should be ductile, which is EXACTLY what it looks like the failure you have.
If you want to take this to the next level, I'm available for testimony. Sometimes I think I should become a Canadian Automotive Consumer Advocate because it's things like this that INFURIATE me.
In any case, let this be a lesson to you all...
If you use your Jeeps off-road and have a failure, they won't cover it. If... say you were to be "responsible" and drive to location and say... just go for a ride along with some of your buddies, and on the way back from the location your axle failed and caused you to run into a ditch... then you're covered. Think that sounds fair? Think about it.
Just sayin. It's a dog eat dog world out there.[/QUOTE]
I agree... everyone go out and pickup the 2009 accessories catalog for the JK and look at their plugs for 4.5 lift kit `off road bumpers``larger tires, skid plates for... and I quote..
`Designed to slide over obstacles.``.....`trail readiness kit``
But they don`t tell you that if your JK has a failure off road doing ....what they advertise...you are screwed....if you are a honest person you are toast.
So take your human decency and toss it in the trash and lie through your teeth.. no more honesty required....have your buddy tow you out to a road and tell them it happened right there..
Zeb
Which brings me to another point. I was an engineer at Dana in a division doing the underhood plumbing. I sat beside Mark who designed most of the stuff on the JK. I did the grille bracket behind the grille of the Ram, some of it's plumbing as well as minivans, and Durango, as well as some other manufacturers. There was a problem staring back in ~2005 during the "steel crisis" where we were getting really shitty steel tubes from the mills. The problem really only existed for DCX programs because their steel specification was not really as good as the others.
I wonder if this is related to these Dana axle tube failures. In fact, the exact reason was excessive concentrations of carbon at specific locations in tube. Overall the carbon composition was correct, but it wasn't uniform, and there were these carbon inclusion which caused brittle failures in tubing that should be ductile, which is EXACTLY what it looks like the failure you have.
If you want to take this to the next level, I'm available for testimony. Sometimes I think I should become a Canadian Automotive Consumer Advocate because it's things like this that INFURIATE me.
In any case, let this be a lesson to you all...
If you use your Jeeps off-road and have a failure, they won't cover it. If... say you were to be "responsible" and drive to location and say... just go for a ride along with some of your buddies, and on the way back from the location your axle failed and caused you to run into a ditch... then you're covered. Think that sounds fair? Think about it.
Just sayin. It's a dog eat dog world out there.[/QUOTE]
I agree... everyone go out and pickup the 2009 accessories catalog for the JK and look at their plugs for 4.5 lift kit `off road bumpers``larger tires, skid plates for... and I quote..
`Designed to slide over obstacles.``.....`trail readiness kit``
But they don`t tell you that if your JK has a failure off road doing ....what they advertise...you are screwed....if you are a honest person you are toast.
So take your human decency and toss it in the trash and lie through your teeth.. no more honesty required....have your buddy tow you out to a road and tell them it happened right there..
Zeb
02-28-2009, 06:09 PM
#26
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I agree... everyone go out and pickup the 2009 accessories catalog for the JK and look at their plugs for 4.5 lift kit `off road bumpers``larger tires, skid plates for... and I quote..
`Designed to slide over obstacles.``.....`trail readiness kit``
But they don`t tell you that if your JK has a failure off road doing ....what they advertise...you are screwed....if you are a honest person you are toast.
So take your human decency and toss it in the trash and lie through your teeth.. no more honesty required....have your buddy tow you out to a road and tell them it happened right there..
Zeb
I agree bad karma is not what you want
`Designed to slide over obstacles.``.....`trail readiness kit``
But they don`t tell you that if your JK has a failure off road doing ....what they advertise...you are screwed....if you are a honest person you are toast.
So take your human decency and toss it in the trash and lie through your teeth.. no more honesty required....have your buddy tow you out to a road and tell them it happened right there..
Zeb
I agree bad karma is not what you want
03-01-2009, 04:13 AM
#27
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And it's not just Jeep that has these issues. You know the Nissan Skyline? It's got one of those auto-manual transmissions with flippy shift paddles and all that. Well, they give you a button for a "launch mode" that does a horrifying full throttle full rpm clutch drop launch. This is the mode that is used to achieve the incredible 1/4 mile times that are published in the mods.
Well, some guys have grenaded the transmission doing it. Nissan will not honor the warranty and it's a $10k+ repair. They say that using launch mode is abusive. Of course, they didn't tell you that when you bought it, it's not in the manual...
Or the 2002 SVT Focus... The Focus has a design flaw in the rear suspension design that is so obvious, any mechanical engineer looks at and immediately asks WTF were you thinking?! For the most part it's ok... Until you put on an aftermarket swaybar that is stiffer than stock, and the lower conrtol arms start shearing off. Results in complete loss of control. Now once you have aftermarket parts... all bets are off, and rightfully so.
Fast forward to the 2002 SVT Focus which comes with... larger rear swaybars than the base model! In 2003 and 4, they mysteriously built those cars with upgraded rear control arms. Reinforced. They never went back and fixed or recalled the 2002's. Having worked there, I can sense the pattern. They probably had failure in testing on the 2002, but none happened (yet) on customer cars, so they quietly fixed it for 2003, without recalling the 2002's. I mean, Ford won't spend a single penny on upgraded parts if they don't have to, they didn't reinforce the 2003 SVT arms because they thought they looked pretty...
A few years back I ran across a guy with a stock 2002 SVT who's rear control arm had snapped. The dealer told him they'd never seen anything like it, and it MUST have been because he was abusing it. So, they made him pay for the repair, and he did.
Well, some guys have grenaded the transmission doing it. Nissan will not honor the warranty and it's a $10k+ repair. They say that using launch mode is abusive. Of course, they didn't tell you that when you bought it, it's not in the manual...
Or the 2002 SVT Focus... The Focus has a design flaw in the rear suspension design that is so obvious, any mechanical engineer looks at and immediately asks WTF were you thinking?! For the most part it's ok... Until you put on an aftermarket swaybar that is stiffer than stock, and the lower conrtol arms start shearing off. Results in complete loss of control. Now once you have aftermarket parts... all bets are off, and rightfully so.
Fast forward to the 2002 SVT Focus which comes with... larger rear swaybars than the base model! In 2003 and 4, they mysteriously built those cars with upgraded rear control arms. Reinforced. They never went back and fixed or recalled the 2002's. Having worked there, I can sense the pattern. They probably had failure in testing on the 2002, but none happened (yet) on customer cars, so they quietly fixed it for 2003, without recalling the 2002's. I mean, Ford won't spend a single penny on upgraded parts if they don't have to, they didn't reinforce the 2003 SVT arms because they thought they looked pretty...
A few years back I ran across a guy with a stock 2002 SVT who's rear control arm had snapped. The dealer told him they'd never seen anything like it, and it MUST have been because he was abusing it. So, they made him pay for the repair, and he did.