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Rubicon locker wiring

 
Old 05-31-2016, 02:12 PM
  #21  
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and again the relay is redundant switch. You have a switch that when you turn it on closes another switch. By all means if you guys want to make things more complicated and expensive then it needs to be by all means knock yourself out. I am just clarifying to anyone reading the post that relays are not needed to wire up the factory e locker. Relays have their purpose like I stated earlier but not in the case of the factory locker.
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Old 05-31-2016, 02:20 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by TheDirtman View Post
and again the relay is redundant switch.
It's not really a redundant switch. It is a high current switch that you can control with milliamps.
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Old 05-31-2016, 03:04 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by TheDirtman View Post
and again the relay is redundant switch. You have a switch that when you turn it on closes another switch. By all means if you guys want to make things more complicated and expensive then it needs to be by all means knock yourself out. I am just clarifying to anyone reading the post that relays are not needed to wire up the factory e locker. Relays have their purpose like I stated earlier but not in the case of the factory locker.
Tom, I know you know your stuff, but come on, a relay hardly constitutes as complicated or expensive.

I may have not owned a Jeep very long, but I've been an electronics hobbyist for 40 years. Is adding a switch and a relay more that "what is needed?" Meh, maybe, but the extra protection is well worth it. The extra switch and the really would come in handy when I need it. Hopefully I will never need it. Kind of like welding your cage into your a-pillar is only something you really need when you need it.
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Old 06-11-2016, 08:33 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by ShutterBug View Post
Tom, I know you know your stuff, but come on, a relay hardly constitutes as complicated or expensive.

I may have not owned a Jeep very long, but I've been an electronics hobbyist for 40 years. Is adding a switch and a relay more that "what is needed?" Meh, maybe, but the extra protection is well worth it. The extra switch and the really would come in handy when I need it. Hopefully I will never need it. Kind of like welding your cage into your a-pillar is only something you really need when you need it.
It seems to me this just adds another point of failure. KISS.
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Old 06-11-2016, 06:55 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Longlegs View Post
It seems to me this just adds another point of failure. KISS.
Horse hockey. It adds a point of isolation.
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Old 06-11-2016, 10:38 PM
  #26  
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? On a off road vehicle simple is better. Just the point I was trying to make. Ad a relay to a switch running the same voltage is just redundant and serves no practical purpose in this application. There is no safety concern over amperage and last time I looked the wiring diagram that was posted is a bad example of how to run wires. This is simply bad informations for someone that is looking to wire up e-lockers.
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Old 06-12-2016, 02:12 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by TheDirtman View Post
Ad a relay to a switch running the same voltage is just redundant and serves no practical purpose in this application. There is no safety concern over amperage and last time I looked the wiring diagram that was posted is a bad example of how to run wires. This is simply bad informations for someone that is looking to wire up e-lockers.
Totally disagree. The locker does NOT run on milliamps so there is nothing redundant about using a relay. It is reducing current running through the tub. The unreduced current running through the tub may be minimal enough to not warrant a relay, maybe, as I have read different draws on the stock lockers, but that doesn't change that the above method of controlling an accessory is the generally accepted practice and used extensively by the factory.

Here I've added a 3A fuse (as mentioned previously) for those that would use undersized wiring or run the control circuit feed from the battery directly. When I need milliamps in the tub to feed the control circuit, I personally do not run a wire all the way from the battery. But, hey, you never know.



Edit: It looks like the factory uses 18 gauge for the locker and 20 gauge for the relay control circuit and switches through the ground side of the control circuit.



When to use a relay, again, is a personal decision. Some guys use relays for everything. Some guys never use relays. I think it's fair to say that most guys fall in between those two extremes. As I previously mentioned I use 5A as the cutoff point. You might use 10A or 15A or the level of difficulty getting wires somewhere. That's your decision as long as you properly execute it there is nothing wrong with it. However, relays are not complex to me neither are they expensive and I will continue to use them where I feel they are warranted, whether for safety reasons or simply aesthetics. They're just one tool in an electrical arsenal.
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Last edited by 14Sport; 06-13-2016 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 06-12-2016, 06:27 AM
  #28  
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I never said the locker runs on milliamps, I know you like to argue this point about relays on the lockers and I am talking this situation. The only reason the factory uses relays is the fact it runs thru the can bus and is using computerized low voltage switch. It has to use a relay (which is just a switch) to control the higher voltage lockers. The lockers draw less then then 10 amps. You can take your diagram and replace the relay with the switch and it will work the same way or you could add 10 relays to the diagram and it would do the same thing. From Wikipedia, notice the first line.

A relay is an electrically operated switch. Many relays use an electromagnet to mechanically operate a switch, but other operating principles are also used, such as solid-state relays. Relays are used where it is necessary to control a circuit by a low-power signal (with complete electrical isolation between control and controlled circuits), or where several circuits must be controlled by one signal. The first relays were used in long distance telegraph circuits as amplifiers: they repeated the signal coming in from one circuit and re-transmitted it on another circuit. Relays were used extensively in telephone exchanges and early computers to perform logical operations.

A type of relay that can handle the high power required to directly control an electric motor or other loads is called a contactor. Solid-state relays control power circuits with no moving parts, instead using a semiconductor device to perform switching. Relays with calibrated operating characteristics and sometimes multiple operating coils are used to protect electrical circuits from overload or faults; in modern electric power systems these functions are performed by digital instruments still called "protective relays".

Magnetic latching relays require one pulse of coil power to move their contacts in one direction, and another, redirected pulse to move them back. Repeated pulses from the same input have no effect. Magnetic latching relays are useful in applications where interrupted power should not be able to transition the contacts.

Magnetic latching relays can have either single or dual coils. On a single coil device, the relay will operate in one direction when power is applied with one polarity, and will reset when the polarity is reversed. On a dual coil device, when polarized voltage is applied to the reset coil the contacts will transition. AC controlled magnetic latch relays have single coils that employ steering diodes to differentiate between operate and reset commands.

On the factory lockers you can wire in a relay like the diagram and if you personally feel you want to do it, it will work fine. It takes more parts and more time which does make it more expensive and more complicated then it needs to be and the relay is just one more thing that can go bad. If the concern is someone accidentally turning on the locker, the diagram listed will not do that. IF going that route I would add a cover to switch so you have to flip up the cover then throw the switch.

Last edited by TheDirtman; 06-12-2016 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 06-12-2016, 06:52 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by TheDirtman View Post
I never said the locker runs on milliamps, I know you like to argue this point about relays on the lockers and I am talking this situation. The only reason the factory uses relays is the fact it runs thru the can bus and is using computerized low voltage switch. It has to use a relay (which is just a switch) to control the higher voltage lockers. The lockers draw less then then 10 amps. You can take your diagram and replace the relay with the switch and it will work the same way or you could add 10 relays to the diagram and it would do the same thing. From Wikipedia, notice the first line.

A relay is an electrically operated switch. Many relays use an electromagnet to mechanically operate a switch, but other operating principles are also used, such as solid-state relays. Relays are used where it is necessary to control a circuit by a low-power signal (with complete electrical isolation between control and controlled circuits), or where several circuits must be controlled by one signal. The first relays were used in long distance telegraph circuits as amplifiers: they repeated the signal coming in from one circuit and re-transmitted it on another circuit. Relays were used extensively in telephone exchanges and early computers to perform logical operations.

A type of relay that can handle the high power required to directly control an electric motor or other loads is called a contactor. Solid-state relays control power circuits with no moving parts, instead using a semiconductor device to perform switching. Relays with calibrated operating characteristics and sometimes multiple operating coils are used to protect electrical circuits from overload or faults; in modern electric power systems these functions are performed by digital instruments still called "protective relays".

Magnetic latching relays require one pulse of coil power to move their contacts in one direction, and another, redirected pulse to move them back. Repeated pulses from the same input have no effect. Magnetic latching relays are useful in applications where interrupted power should not be able to transition the contacts.

Magnetic latching relays can have either single or dual coils. On a single coil device, the relay will operate in one direction when power is applied with one polarity, and will reset when the polarity is reversed. On a dual coil device, when polarized voltage is applied to the reset coil the contacts will transition. AC controlled magnetic latch relays have single coils that employ steering diodes to differentiate between operate and reset commands.

On the factory lockers you can wire in a relay like the diagram and if you personally feel you want to do it, it will work fine. It takes more parts and more time which does make it more expensive and more complicated then it needs to be and the relay is just one more thing that can go bad. If the concern is someone accidentally turning on the locker, the diagram listed will not do that. IF going that route I would add a cover to switch so you have to flip up the cover then throw the switch.
I know what a relay is. I've mentioned it several times already. I wasn't saying that you need a relay as you keep implying. I simply stated that you can use a relay. And many guys do. It's a judgment call. But this discussion just keeps going in circles.
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Old 06-15-2016, 04:42 PM
  #30  
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You guys can argue semantics all you want. For everyone else out there, think of it like this. Why double the points of failure. Two fuses, and an electromagnetic switch is more complexity than is needed. Along with every connection that is a possibility to become loose or corroded. The mechanical switch in the cab isn't likely to go bad if a quality switch is used. If it did and I was hanging on the side of a rock, I could just twist the wires together.
But if you still insist on using a relay, at least get a completly sealed/potted relay. The only place I have been able to find one is from my Boss snowplow dealer. I also highly recommend using dielectric grease in all crimp connectors and on spade connectors.
Hopefully this is information some find useful!
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