Detroit Lockers
11-12-2009, 03:56 AM
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Detroit Lockers
Detroit Lockers, These lock 100% of the time right?
does this mess with MPGs, tire wear, or unwanted stress on the axel? Because I hear running lockers is not good to do all the time.
Thanks in advance
does this mess with MPGs, tire wear, or unwanted stress on the axel? Because I hear running lockers is not good to do all the time.Thanks in advance
11-12-2009, 10:07 AM
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In our application, the Detroit in the rear will be locked 100% of the time in 2H, 4H, and 4L. In dry areas, don't power through a turn, your tires will bark. In snow/ice, easy on the throttle, Detroits tens to want to kick you sideways. But, a Detroit in the rear is a good thing, 100% to both shafts. I highly doubt it will ness with MPG, then again, didn't buy the JK for MPG. Tire wear is the same, again, don't bark the tires around all corners. Sometimes, even when straight, you'll hear and feel a BANG from the rear. It's normal, it's just locking up.
For the front, it's engaged only when there's power to it, 4H and 4L. It will unlock when not under power, so you can turn without bind to some extent. Once under power, it'll bang and lock again. Stress on the shafts? A tend to think so. It's always locked under load, so both tires are churning to gain traction. Then again, with an ARB, Ected, OX, etc.etc.etc. they are also locked when engaged and offer the same stress, IMO.
When I get my 4.88s installed, going Detroits front and rear.
Some people don't like them because they can't drive normally on ice or snow. Damn near everyone in the club I'm with are Detroit locked f/r and have absolutely no problems driving on the street. With that being said, good luck on getting locked!
For the front, it's engaged only when there's power to it, 4H and 4L. It will unlock when not under power, so you can turn without bind to some extent. Once under power, it'll bang and lock again. Stress on the shafts? A tend to think so. It's always locked under load, so both tires are churning to gain traction. Then again, with an ARB, Ected, OX, etc.etc.etc. they are also locked when engaged and offer the same stress, IMO.
When I get my 4.88s installed, going Detroits front and rear.
Some people don't like them because they can't drive normally on ice or snow. Damn near everyone in the club I'm with are Detroit locked f/r and have absolutely no problems driving on the street. With that being said, good luck on getting locked!
11-12-2009, 10:38 AM
#3
For the most part, stories about lockers not being able to be driven on the street are old wives tales. As long as you don't do anything stupid, you'll likely not even have a problem on snow. I don't know of anyfrikkin thing at ALL except for some thin that flies that can drive well on ice. Even studded tires have their limitations. Just watch an episode of Ice Road Truckers and you'll see even they screw up. Get the lockers and have fun.
11-18-2009, 03:57 AM
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There seems to be some confusion as to how a Detroit works. Let me try to shed some light on the situation. Saying it is locked 100% of the time is not accurate. A spool is locked 100% of the time, and the Detroit is an automatic locker, which in itself suggests its ability to lock and unlock. What you could say is that it is mostly locked, and only unlocks when it needs to as opposed to an air locker that is open and only locks when you want it to. It is a differential set up so that no axle can spin slower than the ring gear. That means, when it "unlocks" and I use that term approximately, it allows one axle to spin faster, though not under power.
First lets look at the open diff. On dry pavement when you go around a turn, the outside wheel will turn faster than the outside one. When this happens, power will transfer to the outside wheel because it is the easier one to spin - it is being forced to spin faster because it has the longer path. The outside wheel will then be spinning with the ring gear and the inside one slower. Off road that means when one wheel is in the air, it will get all the power (spinning at the same rate as the ring gear) because it is the easier one to turn.
Now the Detroit. You could say it is basically the reverse of an open diff. On dry pavement going around a turn, the outside wheel will be allowed to spin faster, but the inside wheel will get the power because no wheel can spin slower than the ring gear. So the "unlocking" is the outside wheel being allowed to spin on its own, getting no power. When you go straight again, and the wheels are at the same speed, it will again "lock," or a better description might be that the diff catches the axle as it is slowing down and provides it with power. Off road, the wheel in the air will spin, but as the wheel that is on the ground will not be allowed to spin slower than the ring gear, so you end up moving forward.
As far as driving/handling characteristics of the Detroit go, well, you will first notice the banging and shaking associated with the "unlocking and locking." Its normal. The locking and unlocking are somewhat violent. The next thing that you will notice is that the vehicle corners differently than with an open diff. Like I said, it is a violent locking unlocking action, and it doesn't always happen at the optimal time because of lots of factors, most importantly load. So entering and exiting a turn can sometimes be a bit jerky, and somtimes tires can bark. Finally, when in a turn, you may get the feeling that you are being pushed out of the turn as opposed to into the turn because the inside wheel is driving the vehicle forward and the outside one is free wheeling. Thats on road. Off road, the only difference you will notice is the clunking associated with it and most importantly that you are moving forward in places where you used to get stuck. As far as snow and ice, well, it takes some getting used to. This getting used to means way easy on the skinny pedal or both wheels break free and you go sliding.
Stress on the drivetrain? Not really. The Detroit won't break your axle, you will break your axle because you did something wrong. And when you break your axle, your axle will break your Detroit. The Detroit is a very robust diff, but it has a weak spot, and that means it has a vulnerability to sudden unloading of one side, i.e. mashing on the gas and snaping an axle. HD axles are recommended with a Detroit not because the Detroit is hard on the axle, but because you paid good money for the Detroit and the warranty is void without HD axle shafts. So, while you are all up in that axle anyway when you install the Detroit, it might just be the right time to swap in some new shafts.
As far as tire wear, as long as you don't bark the tires at every corner, you won't notice excessive tire wear. Ease off the gas a bit just before a turn and the Detroit will "unlock" at a more appropriate time and you won't have a problem.
I have always been a fan of Detroits and they would already be in the JK if the Rubicon didn't come with lockers.
First lets look at the open diff. On dry pavement when you go around a turn, the outside wheel will turn faster than the outside one. When this happens, power will transfer to the outside wheel because it is the easier one to spin - it is being forced to spin faster because it has the longer path. The outside wheel will then be spinning with the ring gear and the inside one slower. Off road that means when one wheel is in the air, it will get all the power (spinning at the same rate as the ring gear) because it is the easier one to turn.
Now the Detroit. You could say it is basically the reverse of an open diff. On dry pavement going around a turn, the outside wheel will be allowed to spin faster, but the inside wheel will get the power because no wheel can spin slower than the ring gear. So the "unlocking" is the outside wheel being allowed to spin on its own, getting no power. When you go straight again, and the wheels are at the same speed, it will again "lock," or a better description might be that the diff catches the axle as it is slowing down and provides it with power. Off road, the wheel in the air will spin, but as the wheel that is on the ground will not be allowed to spin slower than the ring gear, so you end up moving forward.
As far as driving/handling characteristics of the Detroit go, well, you will first notice the banging and shaking associated with the "unlocking and locking." Its normal. The locking and unlocking are somewhat violent. The next thing that you will notice is that the vehicle corners differently than with an open diff. Like I said, it is a violent locking unlocking action, and it doesn't always happen at the optimal time because of lots of factors, most importantly load. So entering and exiting a turn can sometimes be a bit jerky, and somtimes tires can bark. Finally, when in a turn, you may get the feeling that you are being pushed out of the turn as opposed to into the turn because the inside wheel is driving the vehicle forward and the outside one is free wheeling. Thats on road. Off road, the only difference you will notice is the clunking associated with it and most importantly that you are moving forward in places where you used to get stuck. As far as snow and ice, well, it takes some getting used to. This getting used to means way easy on the skinny pedal or both wheels break free and you go sliding.
Stress on the drivetrain? Not really. The Detroit won't break your axle, you will break your axle because you did something wrong. And when you break your axle, your axle will break your Detroit. The Detroit is a very robust diff, but it has a weak spot, and that means it has a vulnerability to sudden unloading of one side, i.e. mashing on the gas and snaping an axle. HD axles are recommended with a Detroit not because the Detroit is hard on the axle, but because you paid good money for the Detroit and the warranty is void without HD axle shafts. So, while you are all up in that axle anyway when you install the Detroit, it might just be the right time to swap in some new shafts.
As far as tire wear, as long as you don't bark the tires at every corner, you won't notice excessive tire wear. Ease off the gas a bit just before a turn and the Detroit will "unlock" at a more appropriate time and you won't have a problem.
I have always been a fan of Detroits and they would already be in the JK if the Rubicon didn't come with lockers.
11-18-2009, 08:02 AM
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I drove a YJ for 4 years with lockers front and rear, at first you will be very aware of new noises from the locker itself and some tire chirping in the rear as front axle not locked in on street. After a while you won't even think about it anymore. Offroad you will be very happy as there is no need to turn them on or off, they are there when you need them, you don't even have to think about it! You won't be sorry!
11-18-2009, 09:37 AM
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Breaking an axle with a Detroit, and the Detroit failing is not a 100% true statement. Many of the rigs in my club running Detroits have snapped a shaft (only fronts) and the Detroit is perfectly fine. I can't say the same for the rear, no one has snapped a rear shaft with a Detroit yet.
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11-18-2009, 11:41 AM
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Breaking an axle with a Detroit, and the Detroit failing is not a 100% true statement. Many of the rigs in my club running Detroits have snapped a shaft (only fronts) and the Detroit is perfectly fine. I can't say the same for the rear, no one has snapped a rear shaft with a Detroit yet.
detroits are sounding good now