Fording in a JK
04-20-2011, 03:12 AM
#81
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The problem with any intake vs. snorkel test is unless they face a fan into the snorkel to simulate wind pressure then yes there will be a loss. but at any speed you start to generate a positive pressure in the snorkel and thus negate the loss of sitting stagnant in a hot bay. My money is still on a snorkel delivering more power since you aren't sucking the hot air in from the hood especially when trail riding. As for me I'm adding a snorkel today. The trails we ride you have to do water crossings to get to the rocks, and some times those water crossings are deep. I extended my breathers but after a close call this past weekend a snorkel is going on for sure. We did one water crossing and I looked in the air box after wards, the tires had kicked water up and into the stock air box. $400 insurance of some freak accident is a safe play on my part. The design of putting the stock breather against the curve of the hood was just not a good design, all water that comes into the engine bay will splash off the hood and go into the intake other wise there wouldn't be holes in the stock air box for draining. A little water in the intake is ok since the motor can process a little bit, but a lot if bad. It all boils down to the wheeling you do. If you have the potential for water crossings then a snorkel is worth it IMO.
More on the Dyno factor. Yes a "CAI" or more likely a mass volume air filter which most CAI really are will suck more air then a snorkel at a stand still then a snorkel based just on surface area of the filter. But you can only get a number of Dyno pulls before you get heat soak and start to loose power, ask any Dyno operator, this is why they always do the runs with the hood up and a fan blowing on the radiator. The snorkel will always give you cooler air which is what ever gas motor wants to make power since it resists pining more. Also at any speed the potential air charge in the snorkel will out weigh the air charge in a CAI. If you want proof look at the 90's WS6 trans am. The ram air nostrils were in the front but relatively small. they had a lot of positive pressure pushing fresh air into a small opening but it gave it gobs of power (obviously the more with the faster you go). A snorkel with a ram air scoop put up high will have the same result. Now a snorkel down low by the windshield will be in a odd pressure area and may or may not have the same ram air effects. I say this because I am used to the standard rake of a car and the vertical plane of the wrangler is not like most cars and vertical planes always cause funky pressure areas.
More on the Dyno factor. Yes a "CAI" or more likely a mass volume air filter which most CAI really are will suck more air then a snorkel at a stand still then a snorkel based just on surface area of the filter. But you can only get a number of Dyno pulls before you get heat soak and start to loose power, ask any Dyno operator, this is why they always do the runs with the hood up and a fan blowing on the radiator. The snorkel will always give you cooler air which is what ever gas motor wants to make power since it resists pining more. Also at any speed the potential air charge in the snorkel will out weigh the air charge in a CAI. If you want proof look at the 90's WS6 trans am. The ram air nostrils were in the front but relatively small. they had a lot of positive pressure pushing fresh air into a small opening but it gave it gobs of power (obviously the more with the faster you go). A snorkel with a ram air scoop put up high will have the same result. Now a snorkel down low by the windshield will be in a odd pressure area and may or may not have the same ram air effects. I say this because I am used to the standard rake of a car and the vertical plane of the wrangler is not like most cars and vertical planes always cause funky pressure areas.
Last edited by Cunnart; 04-20-2011 at 03:38 AM.
04-29-2011, 09:20 PM
#83
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Now I'm not looking to fjord the Chattahoochee, but I do search and rescue work and want to have a jeep capable of taking trails, and minor flooding (top of the tires) do I need to extend my breather tubes? I heard somewhere the JK has tubes already at a reasonable height (19 inches?)
Cheers
Cheers
04-29-2011, 09:25 PM
#84
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Originally Posted by otomix
lol, the VW Dakar team must have missed the memo about snorkels being a waste of money.
Cheers
04-30-2011, 09:11 AM
#85
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In reality, people by snorkles so they can look cool. Snorkles actually reduce your air intake and resulting motor efficiency.
Water can get in to your engine compartment and it won't do anything to it. You need water to get sucked in to your air filter (air intake) to do motor damage. Or you need to soak your computer which is actually higher up than your air intake. There is a trail here in CA called Fordyce. The water crossing went over my hood - no hydro lock and no computer failure. Don't let people who don't actually wheel scare you off. I hate mud because it is a pain to clean up afterwards and it can cake to your exhaust and cause overheating problems later on.
Water isn't bad if you have sealed axles (most front axles have "dust seals") which won't hold water out if submerged. The breathers are up pretty high under the body and many of them have one-way valves on top.
If you get water in your axles, just replace the fluid. That's why I always run Lube Locker gaskets. They are re-usable and I can change the fluid whenever I want. It's not a big deal.
The slow is better advice stands however.
Water can get in to your engine compartment and it won't do anything to it. You need water to get sucked in to your air filter (air intake) to do motor damage. Or you need to soak your computer which is actually higher up than your air intake. There is a trail here in CA called Fordyce. The water crossing went over my hood - no hydro lock and no computer failure. Don't let people who don't actually wheel scare you off. I hate mud because it is a pain to clean up afterwards and it can cake to your exhaust and cause overheating problems later on.
Water isn't bad if you have sealed axles (most front axles have "dust seals") which won't hold water out if submerged. The breathers are up pretty high under the body and many of them have one-way valves on top.
If you get water in your axles, just replace the fluid. That's why I always run Lube Locker gaskets. They are re-usable and I can change the fluid whenever I want. It's not a big deal.
The slow is better advice stands however.
05-02-2011, 09:26 AM
#88
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Now I'm not looking to fjord the Chattahoochee, but I do search and rescue work and want to have a jeep capable of taking trails, and minor flooding (top of the tires) do I need to extend my breather tubes? I heard somewhere the JK has tubes already at a reasonable height (19 inches?)
Cheers
Cheers
07-07-2011, 07:59 AM
#89
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The
More on the Dyno factor. Yes a "CAI" or more likely a mass volume air filter which most CAI really are will suck more air then a snorkel at a stand still then a snorkel based just on surface area of the filter. But you can only get a number of Dyno pulls before you get heat soak and start to loose power, ask any Dyno operator, this is why they always do the runs with the hood up and a fan blowing on the radiator. The snorkel will always give you cooler air which is what ever gas motor wants to make power since it resists pining more. Also at any speed the potential air charge in the snorkel will out weigh the air charge in a CAI. If you want proof look at the 90's WS6 trans am. The ram air nostrils were in the front but relatively small. they had a lot of positive pressure pushing fresh air into a small opening but it gave it gobs of power (obviously the more with the faster you go). A snorkel with a ram air scoop put up high will have the same result. Now a snorkel down low by the windshield will be in a odd pressure area and may or may not have the same ram air effects. I say this because I am used to the standard rake of a car and the vertical plane of the wrangler is not like most cars and vertical planes always cause funky pressure areas.
More on the Dyno factor. Yes a "CAI" or more likely a mass volume air filter which most CAI really are will suck more air then a snorkel at a stand still then a snorkel based just on surface area of the filter. But you can only get a number of Dyno pulls before you get heat soak and start to loose power, ask any Dyno operator, this is why they always do the runs with the hood up and a fan blowing on the radiator. The snorkel will always give you cooler air which is what ever gas motor wants to make power since it resists pining more. Also at any speed the potential air charge in the snorkel will out weigh the air charge in a CAI. If you want proof look at the 90's WS6 trans am. The ram air nostrils were in the front but relatively small. they had a lot of positive pressure pushing fresh air into a small opening but it gave it gobs of power (obviously the more with the faster you go). A snorkel with a ram air scoop put up high will have the same result. Now a snorkel down low by the windshield will be in a odd pressure area and may or may not have the same ram air effects. I say this because I am used to the standard rake of a car and the vertical plane of the wrangler is not like most cars and vertical planes always cause funky pressure areas.
If you use a hood level snorkel like the River Raider, and pointed an intake toward the windshield, instead of forward, you would get more ram air from that direction, right? when the wind hits the windshield it is pushed down, like an eddy ("funky pressure area" is the technical term, I think...).
I think that is why you mount one of those "hood vent scoops" toward the windshield instead of forward...
07-07-2011, 09:17 AM
#90
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If you use a hood level snorkel like the River Raider, and pointed an intake toward the windshield, instead of forward, you would get more ram air from that direction, right? when the wind hits the windshield it is pushed down, like an eddy ("funky pressure area" is the technical term, I think...).
I think that is why you mount one of those "hood vent scoops" toward the windshield instead of forward...
I think that is why you mount one of those "hood vent scoops" toward the windshield instead of forward...