Stupid question... is it safe to hook a shackle to a shackle?
03-14-2011, 06:31 PM
#11
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Both of those statements are true. I would still avoid shackle-to-shackle connections just because the load becomes so concentrated over such a small area.
There is another way. I pretty much got laughed at for proposing this before on this forum, but, I read it in a respected offroad driving book and have used it, so, here we go... Just take your tow strap loop, pass it though your D-ring on your Jeep, then back up through the remainder of the loop of your strap. Then take a 1.25" diameter, 8" (or so, it doesn't really matter) length of oak dowel and put it through the end of the loop so it won't pull through itself. So, if something breaks (it sure as hell won't be that oak) there is FAR less mass to go flying around hurting something.
My $.02.
There is another way. I pretty much got laughed at for proposing this before on this forum, but, I read it in a respected offroad driving book and have used it, so, here we go... Just take your tow strap loop, pass it though your D-ring on your Jeep, then back up through the remainder of the loop of your strap. Then take a 1.25" diameter, 8" (or so, it doesn't really matter) length of oak dowel and put it through the end of the loop so it won't pull through itself. So, if something breaks (it sure as hell won't be that oak) there is FAR less mass to go flying around hurting something.
My $.02.
03-14-2011, 07:09 PM
#12
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05-06-2011, 09:00 AM
#13
Both of those statements are true. I would still avoid shackle-to-shackle connections just because the load becomes so concentrated over such a small area.
There is another way. I pretty much got laughed at for proposing this before on this forum, but, I read it in a respected offroad driving book and have used it, so, here we go... Just take your tow strap loop, pass it though your D-ring on your Jeep, then back up through the remainder of the loop of your strap. Then take a 1.25" diameter, 8" (or so, it doesn't really matter) length of oak dowel and put it through the end of the loop so it won't pull through itself. So, if something breaks (it sure as hell won't be that oak) there is FAR less mass to go flying around hurting something.
My $.02.
There is another way. I pretty much got laughed at for proposing this before on this forum, but, I read it in a respected offroad driving book and have used it, so, here we go... Just take your tow strap loop, pass it though your D-ring on your Jeep, then back up through the remainder of the loop of your strap. Then take a 1.25" diameter, 8" (or so, it doesn't really matter) length of oak dowel and put it through the end of the loop so it won't pull through itself. So, if something breaks (it sure as hell won't be that oak) there is FAR less mass to go flying around hurting something.
My $.02.
While ties or shackles are fail-safe (when properly used), a dowel is not secured against sliding out, so I'd use it only as last resort.
If used regularly, to prevent sliding out, I'd make an 'I' shaped one, or, when improvising out there, I'd use a 'Y' branch, so it can't slip through downwards. No doubt it's the quickest connection to untie.
Or, if the loop can go though the D-ring on the Jeep, the rest of the strap can go through that loop. This way, you don't need the wooden dowel, but you may still want to use it. It doesn't hold the connection, but it does make it easier to later untie the strap/rope.
As far as I know, this was the original purpose of using a dowel, and not as part of the connection itself.
Over here, this is how a dowel is used:
When connecting two ropes/straps for lengthening (by passing each through the others' loop), (or by passing a loop through the others' loop, then the rest goes through its own loop), before tightening, a dowel is inserted in the middle, so it goes through both loops. When the dowel is pulled out, the loops aren't tight and easier to untie. The dowel is even more helpful when the connection is covered with mud.
I remember seeing somewhere a picture of an aluminium peg made especially for this purpose.
Last edited by GJeep; 05-06-2011 at 09:11 AM.
05-07-2011, 07:20 AM
#14
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I can't "afford" laughing it off, as I used it myself :-), but I don't like it.
While ties or shackles are fail-safe (when properly used), a dowel is not secured against sliding out, so I'd use it only as last resort.
If used regularly, to prevent sliding out, I'd make an 'I' shaped one, or, when improvising out there, I'd use a 'Y' branch, so it can't slip through downwards. No doubt it's the quickest connection to untie.
Or, if the loop can go though the D-ring on the Jeep, the rest of the strap can go through that loop. This way, you don't need the wooden dowel, but you may still want to use it. It doesn't hold the connection, but it does make it easier to later untie the strap/rope.
As far as I know, this was the original purpose of using a dowel, and not as part of the connection itself.
Over here, this is how a dowel is used:
When connecting two ropes/straps for lengthening (by passing each through the others' loop), (or by passing a loop through the others' loop, then the rest goes through its own loop), before tightening, a dowel is inserted in the middle, so it goes through both loops. When the dowel is pulled out, the loops aren't tight and easier to untie. The dowel is even more helpful when the connection is covered with mud.
While ties or shackles are fail-safe (when properly used), a dowel is not secured against sliding out, so I'd use it only as last resort.
If used regularly, to prevent sliding out, I'd make an 'I' shaped one, or, when improvising out there, I'd use a 'Y' branch, so it can't slip through downwards. No doubt it's the quickest connection to untie.
Or, if the loop can go though the D-ring on the Jeep, the rest of the strap can go through that loop. This way, you don't need the wooden dowel, but you may still want to use it. It doesn't hold the connection, but it does make it easier to later untie the strap/rope.
As far as I know, this was the original purpose of using a dowel, and not as part of the connection itself.
Over here, this is how a dowel is used:
When connecting two ropes/straps for lengthening (by passing each through the others' loop), (or by passing a loop through the others' loop, then the rest goes through its own loop), before tightening, a dowel is inserted in the middle, so it goes through both loops. When the dowel is pulled out, the loops aren't tight and easier to untie. The dowel is even more helpful when the connection is covered with mud.
Since it's on topic, and I haven't shared this picture, here we go. We used this overly long strap to anchor a TJ while it winched out a YJ.
We could have (should have?) wrapped the strap around the tree another round or two then run it through its own loop.
Got it!
05-08-2011, 01:03 AM
#18
tslewisz – Quote: "I don't think there's much risk of a dowel sliding out since it doesn't have much mass and things are under tension, but I understand what you're saying. I think I can picture your method of lengthening. Very good.
Since it's on topic, and I haven't shared this picture, here we go."
First, an apology. The A, B, and C regard a sketch, which I didn't yet figure out how to attach to the post...
In your picture, the connection depends on the dowel.
In this specific case, the dowel wouldn't [and didn't :-)] slip out because it is kept above ground, therefore there's some tension all the time, and nothing touches it.
When lengthening straps, many times the dowel would be on the ground. If the pulling driver made a series of pull-revere-pull, the dowel might get out. Anything on the ground, which would rotate the dowel so it's parallel to the straps/ropes, may cause it to get out of the loop.
If we agree that safety comes first, there should be no free part in any connection.
It's similar to a shackle with a smooth pin, where the pin represents our dowel. We don't count on tension to keep the pin in place, we insert a safety pin into it.
The original mention of using a dowel was like in 'C', where the dowel was the only thing that holds the loop in the 'D'. If momentary slack allows the dowel to slip down, there's no connection. I think that in your picture, which is like in 'B', it is the same principal.
What I meant was 'A': The two straps or ropes go through each others' loop, so the connection does not depend on a dowel.
It (grey circle) is put in the middle, through both loops, only for making it easier & faster to release the tie.
I'll try, later, to post the sketch...
Since it's on topic, and I haven't shared this picture, here we go."
First, an apology. The A, B, and C regard a sketch, which I didn't yet figure out how to attach to the post...
In your picture, the connection depends on the dowel.
In this specific case, the dowel wouldn't [and didn't :-)] slip out because it is kept above ground, therefore there's some tension all the time, and nothing touches it.
When lengthening straps, many times the dowel would be on the ground. If the pulling driver made a series of pull-revere-pull, the dowel might get out. Anything on the ground, which would rotate the dowel so it's parallel to the straps/ropes, may cause it to get out of the loop.
If we agree that safety comes first, there should be no free part in any connection.
It's similar to a shackle with a smooth pin, where the pin represents our dowel. We don't count on tension to keep the pin in place, we insert a safety pin into it.
The original mention of using a dowel was like in 'C', where the dowel was the only thing that holds the loop in the 'D'. If momentary slack allows the dowel to slip down, there's no connection. I think that in your picture, which is like in 'B', it is the same principal.
What I meant was 'A': The two straps or ropes go through each others' loop, so the connection does not depend on a dowel.
It (grey circle) is put in the middle, through both loops, only for making it easier & faster to release the tie.
I'll try, later, to post the sketch...
Last edited by GJeep; 05-08-2011 at 01:14 AM.
05-21-2011, 06:14 AM
#19
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Depending on the size of shackle, it might be one of the stronger points in your setup. I use crosby 1inch 8.5ton lifting shackles. The failure point for these is minimum 5 times their rated capacity.
05-21-2011, 07:25 AM
#20
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Not sure where you are located being on my phone right now. I got my shackles from work. Maybe go to crosby.com maybe cheaper then quadratec.com. they proof test every shackle to 5 times there rating. You will rip your jeep in half before you can get a ¾" shackle to fail.