89MJComanche

I recently purchased a brand new pair of my favorite utility sandals with a water sports professional sole that is basically made for us white water raft guides to wear so we dont slip and fall and break our ass along the banks of a white water river. I think of these sandals the same way I think of a Jeep Wrangler, or for that matter any Jeep Vehicle. It's a utility solution to a hard core problem that I face. While I'm sure that thousands of pairs of these sandals get sold to the public and never worn along a river bank, they make them so that they work in that situation without modification or aftermarket accessories. Well the sole fell off my sandals, just like the paint has falled off my JK Door Hinges, just like my Y-Pipe (called a Catalytic converter assembly so they dont have to warrranty it) rotted on my JK, just like my exhaust manifold cracked on my JK, just like the manifold on my 1995 XJ cracked 15 years ago.

The difference between my sandal company and Chrysler is that the sandal company immediatly responded to my failed sole glue issue (Note that there is no warranty on the sandals) They immediatly disclosed to me that they made some glue changes to try to be more ECO friendly and that the glue is not sticking to the sole that I ordered, and that they would fix my problem ASAP!! They fixed the problem by giving me a free... THATS RIGHT I SAID FREE!! pair of new sandals, made totally custom, with the color footbed and webbing that I wanted, and my choice of an older type water sole that has been tried and true... they are also going to repair my new ones once the solve the glue problem. Note that these are $100 sandals... and they gave me a free pair plus they are fixing my old ones.

Jeep on the other hand, pretty much does not do a thing for it's hard core end users anymore. When I stood on the dealer lot in the fall of 2007 and ordered a 2008 JK4dr Rubicon, I never in a million years thought that by July of 2011 that I'd own a Jeep with a rotten exhaust system, and no paint left on the door hinges. Those of you who know me, know that I do use my vehicles well, but I'm also a complete and udder clean freak/maintenance freak. I wash/wax/and use a dielectric silicone seal on everything almost weekly.

Now changes are being announced for the 2012 model year and the universal 3.6L V6 changes. The ECM is going to have a programmed limitation in it that will cause the computer to put the vehicle in LIMP mode if it senses a change to the differential Gears. I get the notification that this change is taking place as a sales ad for a Calibration device from an aftermarket supplier that has been interfearing with Chrysler's business dealings to me as a hard core end user for the past 15+ years. I'm just about wondering if in 4-5 years Jeep might discontinue the 4x4 option unless I want to buy a Jeep from AEV with a 4x4 conversion for $50,000 over sticker price!

I'm making the sandals/Jeep analogy here, to show that there does not need to be a difference between the product sold to the hard core end user and to the run of the mill consumer who wants to have the feeling of living the lifestyle. If they dont like the gas mileage or the ride quality they can buy a Ford Explorer with sheet metal axles/suspension and a fancy dial knob for soccer moms to choose the proper 4x4 function to pull off into the grass parking next to the soccer field with the 200/Avenger drivers.

I have purchased 3 brand new Jeeps since January 14th of 2005. The first of the three (05LJ Rubi) was pretty much a Lemon (due to a bad manual tranny replacement where the dealer did not put any fluid into the replacement tranny), the second (June 05SE) was plagued with problems with the 4cyl engine, and rotton body mounts that cause the doors/fenders/hood/grille to contstantly shift position, and the 2008JK4 Rubi's problems are explained above.

If I cant regear or retire with a different tire size due to a computer programming issue, and if I cant but a jeep with tinted windows that does not have a power window setup, and if I have to buy a Jeep with the same engine that is going to be put into a Shitbox throwaway Sedan, I'm pretty much out of the market! And if I get one more e-mail about how the product I wish was avaliable at my dealer has to be purchased from AEV for $50,000 more than the $35,000 price tag for a Rubicon... I'm finished!!

Folks collectively as a group, and I'm talking about the hard core end user group.... We make the value of this entire brand. The fact that we do what we do with our Jeeps, is what makes soccer moms and grocery getters across America and the globe want to buy the Liberty/Patriot/Compass Junk that they sell (so funny how a new hood/grandcherokee grille add's $5000 to the price of a vehicle) It is time that this brand starts to listen to its hard core end users. It's time that companies like AEV get the AXE from controlling things like J8 Distribution/Hemi Installation etc. It's time for the hard core end users to take back control of the brand.

If this computer change takes place for the 2012 model year vehicles that limits GEAR CHANGES, I'd like to call for a TOTAL BOYCOTT of purchase of brand new Jeeps by anyone/everyone who does not want to drop and extra $10,000+ for an AEV conversion. In addition, I'd also like to see a BOYCOTT until they get rid of the bare aluminum against bare steel door/hood hinge setup problem that has still not been fixed.

I would not recommend to anyone to buy anything with a Jeep Logo on it right now from the New Dealer based on my crappy experiences over the past 6 years with the quality of the products. I do love my Jeeps! but I hate the company and the sevice/support network that has manufactured them with several significant defects! On the other hand, I'd recommend to anyone and everyone to get a pair of those excellent sandals. Because the sandal company, unlike Chrysler/Fiat/Jeep care about how the product they are selling me performs and are willing to admit when a quality issue is in place.

Hell, I would be willing to go along with several of the above changes, if they would bring in a set of stainless or stainless powder coated door hinges to the MOPAR counter and offer me deal to buy the set of hinges for $300 to fix my paintless door hinge problem, and I'd be willing to go along with the ECM change if again a warranted MOPAR Calibration device was also sold for an appropriate price to allow for Gear Changes etc.

I know several AEV vehicle owners, and I will admit that they have a high quality package, that also had a high quality price. I used ARB/OME products to build my JK in a very similar fashion for thousands and thousands less than an AEV conversion and I'm perfectly happy with what I did. I dont want to be forced to have to buy a $10,000/$15,000 conversion to have a vehicle equipped the way I want it to be when I can do the same thing for $3000 with what I think are better products. I just want AEV and the similar companies to demand that Chrysler/Fiat/Jeep not make these stupid ass changes to the vehicles... instead of using the changes to create some HIGH DOLLAR solution to the problem!! NO ONE WINS buy purchasing a PROCALIBIRATION device because 5 years down the road when it breaks, gets wet, gets damaged in an accident or whatever... there is no guarantee that a replacement part or that factory/dealer support will be there for such a device....

JUST MAKE JEEPS SIMPLE FOLKS!! and for $35,000 please paint DOOR HINGES so that the paint sticks longer than 39 MONTHS!

jhol111964

All good points. One way to solve this problem is to buy a CJ and mod the fool out of it. You get your hardcore radical ride, and they get lost sales.

All these threads on problems, failures, bugs, and bad design are making me nervous. I love a lot of things about my JK, but more and more, I'm wondering if I'd be happier just restoring the old '68 CJ5. After all, its supposed to be a jeep first, and a JK second.

meljr

I think the OP has a very convincing analogy with respect to Chrysler not standing behind many dedicated owner's perception of what Jeep's core values should be -- especially when contrasted with the sandal maker's very supportive response to a similar product shortcoming.

However, it does not follow that AEV is the enemy. I admit I am somewhat of an AEV fanboy and have many of their parts in my build as well as ARB, Currie and OR-FAB. I received the same communication from AEV concerning the Procal's current inability to reprogram 2012 Wranglers that have been regeared. Then AEV went on to say they were working with Chrysler to develop a firmware upgrade to address this issue. One reason AEV is able to charge premium prices for their products is because of their demonstrated design and engineering capabilities. If you don't think their industry connections, innovation and quality are worth rewarding, go buy a Chinese knock off snorkel.

By the way, before I bought my JK, I was seriously considering one of the last new AEV Brute conversions, but I bought a stripper JK to mod and a Comanche to restore instead and have had twice the fun for for about $10,000 less so far than I would have spent on the Brute alone.

-meljr

ChryslerChris

One word: Daimler. They ruined Chrysler. Buy a 2011 or later and you'll get a different vehicle.

Jkblu32586

Will the paint come off my 11 jk hinges?

Noxian

Yes but so did the paint on my 04 TJ, Just paint them up with rock guard.

porters

I am a very big fan of voting with my wallet. I am always amazed when I take my Jeep in for service as they always try and convince me my problems are not problems. I always have to battle to get things fixed, and then half the time fight a second battle to get them to fix the problem right.

Recently I had a wont start scenario 150 miles away from the nearest Jeep dealer, and worse yet at the top of a mountain with the wife and 3 kids in the Jeep. Luckily my brother was there to tow me down the mountain. While being towed in neutral I tried starting the Jeep again and it fired right up and we drove home. What made this so frustrating is that I took the Jeep in the week before to get them to fix an intermittent wont start. They kept the Jeep for a day and then told me nothing was wrong with it.

I then took the Jeep in again after getting home and they told me they had three JKs this week with the same symptoms. I told them about the fact that the JK would not start until I shifted it into neutral and they should look at the tranny range sensor as it's a common cause of the won't start problem. They took a look at the JK again, and told me to go home there was nothing wrong with it. To get them to fix it, I had to give them a video of the problem in action, print out several customers describing the exact same problem from the web, give them the part number of the part, prove to them the part was under warranty, and it's actually at the dealer getting fixed right now. Oh wait, they just called and said they did not have the seal for the new sensor so it's going to be another day.

So I hear you and I hear your frustration. Customer service should not be like this.

On the Door hinges thing, I had them repainted under warranty and then they came back with spaces between the hinges. I told the dealer that they could not have gaps in the hinges as that would let water in and they would re-rust in less than a year. I kept refusing to accept the vehicle until they fixed the gaps but after weeks they still had gaps so I gave up. Less than a year later I have rust at each gap site again. Frustrating!

So I think it's a fine idea to boycott a business that does not listen to the customer. However, without a lot of friends, it won't make a difference.

arasco85

Hey 89mj. Where do you raft at? My family just sold their white water rafting company in az

goaterguy

I think you are over reacting. The Nissan GTR is the top car of the brand and when it came out it was supposed to have an "uncrackable" ECM. Someone cracked it within a month.

Nissan doesn't sell as many GTRs in a year as Jeeps sells Wranglers in a week. Also remember that the 3.6L Pentastar is in basically every vehicle produced by Chrysler.

Give it some time, some company with a 14 year old teen working for them will crack Jeep ECM before you know it.

blw

I had a Toyota Camry and the exhaust rusted in 2 years. The water pump on my Toyota Sequoia just had to be replaced at 30K miles. This does seem to be a big overreaction, and it wouldn't surprise me to see a few problems like this with my 2010 Jeep. My only vehicle that was totally reliable for the first 100k miles (not a problem!) was my Isuzu Trooper, but it was built in Japan by extremely anal people (no offense to them, I admire them).