It’s like a bunch of scratch off lottery tickets
05-16-2019, 11:30 AM
#41
JK Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Trucks and Jeeps are two very different animals. There are all kinds of lifts for trucks that don't have the same name with jeeps in regards to popularity and quality. Honestly, I think that is why you see so many of these RC lifts being installed. I think RC has a larger following with trucks, people see the name, recognize it, and slap it on......as opposed to a name like Metalcloak, most have never heard of.
Just in case you haven't run across it yet, the Jeep crowd is pretty darn friendly for the most part. It isn't uncommon for newer owners to stop me in a parking lot at the grocery store or hardware store (or just yell over at a stoplight), and we'll stand around talking about whatever Jeep-related topic interests them.
You might be amazed at how letting other owners know that you are gathering opinions on how various setups handle and perform is a pretty quick route to getting invites to check out whatever they are running. Actual first-hand experience with a few of these mfg's coils/shocks has to be better than "because that's what I ran in my full-size truck..."
You might be amazed at how letting other owners know that you are gathering opinions on how various setups handle and perform is a pretty quick route to getting invites to check out whatever they are running. Actual first-hand experience with a few of these mfg's coils/shocks has to be better than "because that's what I ran in my full-size truck..."
Here's what is going on with the Mopar Fox shocks. You need to think along the lines of a tuned suspension principles. In an ideal world the shock valving will be tuned to the spring rate/stiffness. What you may notice from the parts list I posted earlier for the Mopar lift options is that they make a 2 door kit and a 4 door kit. The 4 door weighs more than the 2 door, thus the 4 door rear springs should be stiffer to better support the additional weight of the 4 door. Now I'm not as familiar with the BDS kits you have been looking at, but did you happen to notice if they make different kits for the 2 door vs the 4 door? If not, then they took a compromised solution of picking a spring rate which will accommodate the weight of the 2 door and 4 door, thus a compromised middle of the ground spring rate stiffness solution or they may have made a custom kit more tuned for the 4 door only. For the stock suspension the stock springs are also different between the 2 door and the 4 door based on these same principles. Now since the rear springs are different between the 2 door and 4 door versions of the Mopar kits, so should be the rear shocks.
Now the difference between the Mopar Fox shocks and the off the shelf equivalent Fox shocks. Fox worked with Mopar to adjust the valving of the Mopar versions to better match the kits spring rates. Thus, the reason there are also different part numbers for the rear shocks on the 2 door and 4 door versions of the Mopar kits. The lengths are exactly the same between the Fox aftermarket and Mopar Fox shocks. The Fox non Mopar versions do not differentiate between the 2 door and the 4 door, thus once again it's a compromised middle of the ground valving solution.
This is straight from Fox in regards to the differences of the Mopar kit Fox shocks and their non Mopar branded Fox shocks.
Now if you're familiar with the Rancho RS9000XL shocks, one of the benefits of those shocks are that they have an adjustment on them where you can adjust the valving to provide a softer or firmer ride.
RS9000?XL Shock Absorbers - Rancho® Performance Suspension & Shocks
That's the same principle the Mopar branded Fox shocks are trying to achieve. So the combination of different spring rates for the 2door vs the 4door in combination with shocks which are valved to better match those different spring rates are all in an effort to increase the on road ride comfort by providing a smoother ride. If on road ride comfort isn't important to you, then these finer attention to details may not have a benefit to you. They did to me since my JKU is a daily driver, weekend warrior where I didn't want a ride which felt like it was bouncing down the highway every time I hit a bump. Mopar branded Fox shocks should have a smoother overall ride, than the off the shelf equivalent Fox shocks everything else is equal. So as you mentioned you're starting to find the Fox shocks seem to perform better off road but the Bilsteins ride better on road. Well, the Mopar kit provides a Fox shock which should now perform well in both areas.
P.S. As a further FYI, I did go on the BDS website. The nice thing they do is that you can add additional components and thus build your own package kit. It also had a couple of options of shocks to chose where the Fox 2.0 performance shocks were one of those options and it sounded like by their description they were tuned to their springs for the 4 door kit. When I assembled a BDS kit which were the same components as included with the Mopar, the price was $1150, it was the same aside from the BDS kit had that frame mounted track bar relocation bracket and the Mopar has the axle mounted. Maybe you can shop around and find better prices but my initial thought was that the BDS was $300+ more than the Mopar lift, thus supporting what I originally stated that once you do an apples to apples comparison, the Mopar 2in lift ends up being one of the best value lifts in this category of lifts.
Now the difference between the Mopar Fox shocks and the off the shelf equivalent Fox shocks. Fox worked with Mopar to adjust the valving of the Mopar versions to better match the kits spring rates. Thus, the reason there are also different part numbers for the rear shocks on the 2 door and 4 door versions of the Mopar kits. The lengths are exactly the same between the Fox aftermarket and Mopar Fox shocks. The Fox non Mopar versions do not differentiate between the 2 door and the 4 door, thus once again it's a compromised middle of the ground valving solution.
This is straight from Fox in regards to the differences of the Mopar kit Fox shocks and their non Mopar branded Fox shocks.
Now if you're familiar with the Rancho RS9000XL shocks, one of the benefits of those shocks are that they have an adjustment on them where you can adjust the valving to provide a softer or firmer ride.
RS9000?XL Shock Absorbers - Rancho® Performance Suspension & Shocks
That's the same principle the Mopar branded Fox shocks are trying to achieve. So the combination of different spring rates for the 2door vs the 4door in combination with shocks which are valved to better match those different spring rates are all in an effort to increase the on road ride comfort by providing a smoother ride. If on road ride comfort isn't important to you, then these finer attention to details may not have a benefit to you. They did to me since my JKU is a daily driver, weekend warrior where I didn't want a ride which felt like it was bouncing down the highway every time I hit a bump. Mopar branded Fox shocks should have a smoother overall ride, than the off the shelf equivalent Fox shocks everything else is equal. So as you mentioned you're starting to find the Fox shocks seem to perform better off road but the Bilsteins ride better on road. Well, the Mopar kit provides a Fox shock which should now perform well in both areas.
P.S. As a further FYI, I did go on the BDS website. The nice thing they do is that you can add additional components and thus build your own package kit. It also had a couple of options of shocks to chose where the Fox 2.0 performance shocks were one of those options and it sounded like by their description they were tuned to their springs for the 4 door kit. When I assembled a BDS kit which were the same components as included with the Mopar, the price was $1150, it was the same aside from the BDS kit had that frame mounted track bar relocation bracket and the Mopar has the axle mounted. Maybe you can shop around and find better prices but my initial thought was that the BDS was $300+ more than the Mopar lift, thus supporting what I originally stated that once you do an apples to apples comparison, the Mopar 2in lift ends up being one of the best value lifts in this category of lifts.
At at this point, I am just trying to figure out which lift is going to be higher. BDS OR MOPAR. I will get the best components, as you guys recommend.
I would lean toward the mopar, due to the Fox setup, but I am worried it won’t be enough Lift for me.
05-17-2019, 04:30 AM
#42
Super Moderator
Alls, I can do is tell you about my experience with the Mopar 2in lift heights which is similar to what others have reported in the discussion thread I sent you.
Stock weight, I got 3 1/4" front, 3in rear, 3 1/8" overall.
After adding steal bumpers, 12K winch, front skid plate, HD tire carrier, and mounting a 35in spare on the rear, that additional weight puts me at 2 3/4" overall currently.
Stock weight, I got 3 1/4" front, 3in rear, 3 1/8" overall.
After adding steal bumpers, 12K winch, front skid plate, HD tire carrier, and mounting a 35in spare on the rear, that additional weight puts me at 2 3/4" overall currently.
05-17-2019, 05:08 AM
#43
JK Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Alls, I can do is tell you about my experience with the Mopar 2in lift heights which is similar to what others have reported in the discussion thread I sent you.
Stock weight, I got 3 1/4" front, 3in rear, 3 1/8" overall.
After adding steal bumpers, 12K winch, front skid plate, HD tire carrier, and mounting a 35in spare on the rear, that additional weight puts me at 2 3/4" overall currently.
Stock weight, I got 3 1/4" front, 3in rear, 3 1/8" overall.
After adding steal bumpers, 12K winch, front skid plate, HD tire carrier, and mounting a 35in spare on the rear, that additional weight puts me at 2 3/4" overall currently.
05-19-2019, 07:44 AM
#44
JK Jedi
If you are going to run a 35"x12.5" tire then stick to a 2-2.5" lift and you can always add a 3/4" coil spacer up front later if you feel you need to regain some height due to bumper, winch, and armor. Buy a quality coil to start with and you will be better off down the road. Shocks are subjective and you see the same shock reviews totally different by two different reviewers. Most of the time it is improper tires being put on a jeep that is the culprit for the bad ride. You may also not know that a 35" tire is not a 35" tire in most cases and do your research on the actual size of tire you are going to put on. Almost none will actually be as big as advertised and some can be almost 2" smaller when mounted on the jeep. Also avoid the E rated tire as it is really too stiff a tire for the jeep and tends to ride poorly and does not hook up off road vs a C rated tire which I would recommend. Also stick to a 17" wheel and avoid the bigger stuff like 20" wheels because the lack of sidewalls. Your Sahara came with 18" but I would change to 17" if the previous owner did not. With the bigger 35x12.5" tire you also want a wheel with 4.5" of back spacing or less to maintain fulling without rubbing on the frame. You may also want to investigate what gears you have in your axle since you are going bigger tires. I can tell you will not like 35's with 3.21 gears.
For what you are doing I would recommend this kit https://metalcloak.com/jeep-jk-wrang...t-edition.html or this kit https://metalcloak.com/jeep-jk-wrang...t-edition.html
The kit with the drop brackets would give you a better ride on road as the brackets do more to correct geometry and caster vs just the adjustable upper that will adjust caster.
IF you feel you need shiny shocks then you can first kit I suggested with fox shocks https://metalcloak.com/jeep-jk-wrang...x-edition.html. I would think they would give you fox with the correction brackets as well if you asked. You can also get the kits without shocks if you want the 5100's
With these kits you should not need anything else unless you have a 2012+ that needs the exhaust spacers.
There are a million ways to go with a lift but Metal Cloak has it pretty much nailed down with their kit offerings and are IMO one of the top quality lifts on the market. Don't buy based on cost, buy based on what you need as too many people have made the buy cheap decision only to end up buying the right thing later costing them way more then doing it right the first time.
There are some links in my signature that may be helpful to you as well to learn about suspensions.
For what you are doing I would recommend this kit https://metalcloak.com/jeep-jk-wrang...t-edition.html or this kit https://metalcloak.com/jeep-jk-wrang...t-edition.html
The kit with the drop brackets would give you a better ride on road as the brackets do more to correct geometry and caster vs just the adjustable upper that will adjust caster.
IF you feel you need shiny shocks then you can first kit I suggested with fox shocks https://metalcloak.com/jeep-jk-wrang...x-edition.html. I would think they would give you fox with the correction brackets as well if you asked. You can also get the kits without shocks if you want the 5100's
With these kits you should not need anything else unless you have a 2012+ that needs the exhaust spacers.
There are a million ways to go with a lift but Metal Cloak has it pretty much nailed down with their kit offerings and are IMO one of the top quality lifts on the market. Don't buy based on cost, buy based on what you need as too many people have made the buy cheap decision only to end up buying the right thing later costing them way more then doing it right the first time.
There are some links in my signature that may be helpful to you as well to learn about suspensions.