RedRubycon

Well, sort of... Looking for some advice/opinions as I start doing some research and shopping on lift kits.
- Basic info: '12 6-speed 2-door Rubicon, Daily Driver and light to moderate Weekend-Wheeler.
- Currently have steel bumper, winch coming soon, soft-top and usually doorless.
- Goal is to get some 35's underneath without any rubbing, even at full flex/steering lock.
- By no means an expert, and hoping to go for a fairly straightforward bolt-on system.

Trying to go for the minimal lift required, especially to avoid further complications with drive-line geometry, front drive shaft issues, etc. Going to get some additional clearance with fender mods (already have flats in the front) and fix the backspacing with new rims, so thinking I can probably get by with ~2.5" of lift. So what I need from you, dear forum readers, is some experience based opinions...

Long story short: How significant a difference in performance, both on and off road, would one expect to see from a more comprehensive kit (like Rubicon Express 2.5" Short Arm) compared to a more affordable kit (for comparison, another Rubicon Express 2.5" kit)?
Obviously the "is it worth it?" question is dependent upon a lot of factors, like budget and usage, so just trying to get a sense of just how a big difference I could expect from one vs. the other.

Thanks in advance for what I'm sure will be some useful insights!

nthinuf

So, looking at those two lifts, your questions are: What is Caster, and why do I want to correct it? And, why do I want the axles centered?

Stapled right to the top of this modified area are two good threads. Thoughts on Lifts, and FAQ's. When you get a chance, there is a lot of good info in them.

But, as you lift, both axles will shift to one side. To get the rear axle re-centered under the jeep, a rear trackbar bracket is included with both kits. For the front, that expensive kit includes an adjustable trackbar, the cheap kit leaves it off-center. (at 2.5", many people will not address the front.)

And, as you lift, the axle housings rotate. Up front, this raises the pinion, which automatically lowers the caster, and makes the steering feel flighty. The cheap kit does not address the issue, the expensive kit goes overboard and includes a full set of both front and rear arms. (for that lift height, a single set of front arms is fine. Or a set of brackets. Or, many people choose to leave it alone. Personal opinion based on perceived handling)

One thing to wrap your head around is that many of the nifty components you see are designed to get the angles back in alignment for the 100% of time you are driving on the pavement. Not for the .02% of the time you are in the dirt and rocks.

RedRubycon

Hm, seems like my question really wasn't very clear then... Let me try that again:

1) How badly will a 2.5" lift throw the geometry off? I know 3" is around the point where things can start to hit a tipping point, but not sure how much difference that 1/2 inch makes.

and 2) Will a more extensive kit that provides all the correct geometry adjustments have a worthwhile increase in performance, in terms of ride quality/handling and/or articulation?

I know all this information is available elsewhere, but it mostly seems to be in fragmented bits and pieces, from discussions that are related to, but not necessarily identical, to my particular situation, so I'm hoping to gather some clearer data.

jedg

Well, there won't be an exact answer for you... especially with you running a 2-door. How much lift you gain out of any kit is going to be based on the weight of your vehicle which will depend on what bumpers and such you're running (basically anything above the coils (sprung weight). For example, my 4-door gets 3 1/8" lift from 3.5" RK triple rates... my buddy is running the same springs on his 2-door and has a bit over 4" of lift.

Really, your best bet is to ensure the kit comes with the necessary components to address geometry.

nthinuf

It's all personal opinion. As you go taller, the angles get progressively worse. There is nothing saying that at 2.5 you'll be ok, but 3" means you HAVE to do this and this and this. It's about knowing what problems are caused by lifting, and how to correct them - if you decide to correct them. Honestly, I doubt you would be able to tell the difference in steering feel between 2.5" and 3". 3" is just the unofficial point where caster correction is 'suggested'. It's one of those ask 10 different people, get 5 different answers questions. Your opinion is the one that will matter.

And there is no problem at all with starting more minimal and adding caster correction or centering for the front axle later if/when you decide to.

RedRubycon

Alright, appreciate the info! Would be great to be able to keep all the geometry just right, even if a full set of 8 control arms would maybe be overkill for a 2.5" lift... So guess I'll need to decide how much it's worth to me when I get to that point. I really don't want to cut any corners on this jeep, and do everything as "right" as I possibly can, but I'm not made of money!

Now, the question is, do I have enough extra weight to make a 3" lift work without starting to risk issues with the front driveshaft hitting the exhaust? Hm...

nthinuf

Whatever company you choose, look around for reports of actual measured heights!! Some companies are known to design their coils for loaded rigs, and others are better known for early sagging. (I got closer to 5" with my 3.5" MetalCloak coils. Way more than I was expecting.)

resharp001

As jedg and nthinuf have already highlighted, lifting a jeep is not an exact science. In fact, it's complete opposite end of the spectrum. Literally, every jeep's outcome is different. The learning curve can be steep, and once you start tinkering with something, those changes have various implications further up/down the ladder. That's just part of having a lifted rig. It will take a little time to work things out, especially if you're trying to be budget conscious. There are fixes to everything. You can easily re-route the exhaust cross over if it's causing a clearance issue, or get an aftermarket DS, or both. A lot depends on your intended use. There are always tradeoffs, and you can never have EVERYTHING you want. Honestly, quality 2.5" lift with 35's is a nice look, and plenty of clearance for most offroading. Full set of 8 arms would be overkill for that as the rear wouldn't be adding a ton of function for you. You could always get some control arm brackets to start, and upgrade to adjustable front arms later (re-selling the brackets). As mentioned above, you can't count on getting the stated lift out of most springs. Actual netted lift will likely be a bit different....usually a bit higher to start.

RedRubycon

Thanks, appreciate the advice. Poking around a bit more, I like this Teraflex 3" kit. Seems like it might a good middle ground... From what I can find their stuff seems to be measured off a stock Jeep, so some additional weight would bring the actual lift height down a touch. Well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what my budget looks like by the time I need to replace the tires... I'll probably end up chickening out on the cost, and just getting some spacers and 33's or something.

nthinuf

Nothing wrong with going for a spacer lift. Gets you some height without the big price tag, and you can always resell it if you decide on a coil lift later. Teraflex has several very popular 2.5" BB's that come with a good assortment of additional components, worth throwing onto your comparison list at least.