I'm really getting tired of the ESP cutting throttle in mud and on muddy hills.

Do I have to install a kill switch or can you do the steering wheel dance on 13's?

 

I remember seeing some posts on this forum a month or so back that talked about doing something then turning the wheel lock to lock, etc. The same thread also gives a great how-to on installing a physical cutout switch in the cabin.

 

This is the best write up I have ever seen on the kill switch.

https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/jk-w...riteup-260247/


I've had mine set up this way for a little over two years. No issues. Easily my favorite mod.

Highly recommended!

Happy Jeeping!

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There is a steering wheel dance they say you can do, but I was never able to make it work.

No regrets on the kill switch!

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If you're in 4WD low, that function of ESP is turned off automatically. If it isn't, something is wrong with your Jeep. Also, there are three modes for your ESP control switch. My observation is most people think there are only two: On and off. If you're one of them, suggest you study the pertinent sections of your owner's manual.

 

The steering wheel Hokey-Pokey only works on the 3.8L, 2007-2011. IIRC, you can shut off most ESP functions on the 3.6L by holding the button down until the display indicates it is disabled. As noted, ESP is automatically disabled in 4LO.

 

You are both dead wrong.

If your going to post on forum and put information out there to try and help people, you may want to check your facts a little.

YES, you can hold the button and "turn off ESP" in 4 wheel high, but it's still not COMPLETELY disabled.

Same goes for 4-Lo. Sure the light comes on letting you know it's "off" but it's not.

Try to whip a donut in a snow covered parking lot or go up a super muddy hill with the ESP button "off" and see what happens.

Drive in a jeep like I did with a kill switch and you will see what ESP totally off for real is really like. It's night and day.

Per jeep: disabling the button buy holding it down until you here a chime, and also by using 4-low does disable ESP by 70-80% of normal function.

Know what that means? It's still on...

 

You mean like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kfYyeRwRSI
That's in 4HI in the ESC "fully off" mode (press and hold ESP button for ~5 seconds while stopped).

I experimented with 2HI with ESP on, partial off, and in 4HI with ESP on, partial off, and full off. ESC full off will definitely allow you to completely lose control, get sideways, spin out, etc.

Now you won't quite be able to "whip a donut" the way would in a 2WD vehicle without ESC, but that's because of 4WD - not because of ESC interfering.


Describing it as "disable ESP by 70-80% of normal function" is very odd. What does it mean to be 70-80% disabled? Can you link to a source of this info?

As you suggested, let's check some facts

Owner's manual for the 2013 Wrangler (my particular model year): http://cdn.dealereprocess.com/cdn/se...runlimited.pdf

Page 456 lists all of the individual components that make up the overall "ESC" system:


The description of the 3 ESC modes begins on page 464. The relevant part regarding the "full off" mode:

Now, it is a bit confusing that "ESC" us used both to describe a specific stability control feature (preventing over/under-steer), and also as a broad term to describe the complete collection of all stability control systems. Also confusing is that the owner's manual sometimes uses the term "ESP" (Electronic Stability Program) to refer to the overall collection of components, distinct from ESC which only handles over/under-steer. I assume they are only referring to the over/under-steer portion here. But it's also confusing that they don't list off the other systems that are disabled as well.

In sections describing various components of ESC, you will also find notes that they are disabled when in "ESC off" mode:

p.462:
p.496:

So bringing all of that confusing info together, we find that the following systems are still active in "ESC off"/"Full Off" mode:
* Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) - I have read elsewhere that ABS switches into an "off road" mode in 4HI and/or 4LO, but this is not described in the 2013 owner's manual.
* Brake Assist System (BAS)
* Hill Start Assist (HSA)
* Hill Descent Control (HDC)
* The "limited slip" portion of the Traction Control System (TCS), a.k.a., "Brake Locking Differential" or "BLD".

None of these systems will prevent you from sliding sideways, drifting, doing donuts, etc.

None of these systems will "cut throttle" at any point while trying to climb a muddy hill, etc.

The only system that will sap some power if it activates is the BLD system when it applies braking force to the wheel that has lost traction and is spinning faster. If this happens, you'll probably hear/feel the brakes pulsing, and you should add more throttle to compensate.

Be aware that all of these systems will be disabled with the ESC kill switch modification.

~Jeff

 

Just spend the 10 bucks and 15 minutes to put a kill switch in. It's the only way to completely shut the ESP/ESC/TC/ABS off when ever you want it off and in any mode of 2x4 or 4x4.

 

I have never been able to get any tone or message out of my jeep holding the traction control off button for any amount of time in 2wd or 4HI in my 2013 Rubicon even in neutral with the parking brake on, or holding the brakes, or any combination of situations I have tried.

My main reasoning for wanting the kill switch is for use in 2wd. It makes me crazy driving on gravel roads (which I do almost daily) where every time I hit a piece of washboard the light blinks and the brakes come on, and then instead of reacting to the way the vehicle shifts, I end up reacting to what the traction control is doing. I've been driving washboard gravel roads my entire life, I don't need the computer stepping in just because I got a little jitter coming into a corner on the washboard. I know how to handle my vehicle.

I also found it very handy having the kill switch the other day when I had a bad ABS wheel speed sensor, and until I was able to find the bad sensor and replace it, about every third time I took off from a stop it would try to lock up the passenger side front tire.

One last thing: 95% of the time I love the hill assist start it's pretty sweet. However, that other five percent of the time is when I am backing into my garage to do something to the jeep or get it out of nasty weather, or take the roof and doors and stuff off, and since i am going slow, when either the front or back tires hit the ledge of the slab for the garage, I stop just long enough for the jeep to decide that I am on a hill, and it should assist me going up the "hill" by turning on the brakes and causing me to stall out. Super frustrating. Now I hit the switch and I don't have to fight that over protective computer.

I also have the Rubi locker mod done. While I rarely ever use those switches, I like the idea of having them.

Anyway. Rant over. I love the ESP kill switch, others may not.

As always: to each their own. Happy Jeeping!

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