Need Advice - Clutch Issues
10-05-2010, 07:04 PM
#1
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Need Advice - Clutch Issues
My Question -
What is this noise, where is it coming from, what should I do about it?
Whats Wrong -
I am getting a lot of chatter and noise from the clutch or transmission. I only get it when the clutch is engaged (not pressing the pedal), it goes away when the clutch is disengaged (pressing the pedal). It is bad at idle and increased when revving the engine until a point then it quiets down. It is also louder in reverse and in 4lo.
What Changed -
I took my Jeep to a local repair shop to get the clutch replaced. They outsourced the clutch rebuild to a local clutch shop. They (one or both shops I presume) decided that the stock Rubicon clutch did not have enough friction material to support/work well with my Jeep's setup (35" tires on 16"x8" wheels), because I had "supposedly" blown out the friction material from the transmission side of the clutch disc. So they decided it needed a new better clutch with a wider friction band. So they replaced it with one that has Kevlar friction material and a 3" band of material instead of the stock 2".
Backstory -
I had an issue with my clutch, after down shifting while exiting the highway. I did not get the engine breaking I expected. Once at the stop sign when I shifted into 3rd at the end of the exit ramp my jeep did not move. I was unable to go anywhere, my clutch was slipping 100% regardless of the pedal position.
What is this noise, where is it coming from, what should I do about it?
Whats Wrong -
I am getting a lot of chatter and noise from the clutch or transmission. I only get it when the clutch is engaged (not pressing the pedal), it goes away when the clutch is disengaged (pressing the pedal). It is bad at idle and increased when revving the engine until a point then it quiets down. It is also louder in reverse and in 4lo.
What Changed -
I took my Jeep to a local repair shop to get the clutch replaced. They outsourced the clutch rebuild to a local clutch shop. They (one or both shops I presume) decided that the stock Rubicon clutch did not have enough friction material to support/work well with my Jeep's setup (35" tires on 16"x8" wheels), because I had "supposedly" blown out the friction material from the transmission side of the clutch disc. So they decided it needed a new better clutch with a wider friction band. So they replaced it with one that has Kevlar friction material and a 3" band of material instead of the stock 2".
Backstory -
I had an issue with my clutch, after down shifting while exiting the highway. I did not get the engine breaking I expected. Once at the stop sign when I shifted into 3rd at the end of the exit ramp my jeep did not move. I was unable to go anywhere, my clutch was slipping 100% regardless of the pedal position.
10-05-2010, 08:05 PM
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I should add that the reason I don't just take it back to the guys that did it is b/c while they were recommended to me they did IMHO a crappy job. They broke the plastic retaining clip on the t-case shifter linkage (was just hanging loose even though they said they tested it in 4x4-so I don't know if they broke it while removing the tranny or he forced it in to 4lo and it failed then), they almost tore off the bank 2/sensor2 O2 sensor while removing the transmission (throwing error codes-I fixed this tonight-pins had been pulled almost all the way out of the quick connector), tore up all the sound dampening material above the trans and t-case, beat the t-case to hell, didn't resecure the fuel line on the passenger of the trans (something has shifted to the point I can't get a bolt through the bracket to the trans, and broke several of the clips holding down the shifter boot and fascia. I'm sure there is more I haven't found. Not to mention whatever my actual clutch problem is
Last edited by RubiRedJK; 10-06-2010 at 10:59 AM. Reason: typo
10-06-2010, 06:53 AM
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While I am not overall pleased with the clutch in my 2009...just doesn't feel "solid" to me, I suspect there have only been a very low percentage of JK owners that have done clutchwork....
Looking forward to any responses...I would love to throw a better aftermarket one in, but won't touch anything until this one goes...
G
Looking forward to any responses...I would love to throw a better aftermarket one in, but won't touch anything until this one goes...
G
10-06-2010, 09:05 AM
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found the noise coming from the shifter
I started making the list of things that are wrong that I can bring to shop for them to attempt to fix. And I figured out why my shifter is so noisy...
There is noise coming from my shifter because they tore 2 of the 3 shifter boots when apparently lowering the transmission without disconnecting the shifter. The only one not torn is the cosmetic one you see inside the cabin. The middle boot under that one is torn in two places and the bottom outside boot was not reinstalled properly and appears to be torn as well. In any case you can see daylight though that 3rd boot...
Seriously? WTF???
There is noise coming from my shifter because they tore 2 of the 3 shifter boots when apparently lowering the transmission without disconnecting the shifter. The only one not torn is the cosmetic one you see inside the cabin. The middle boot under that one is torn in two places and the bottom outside boot was not reinstalled properly and appears to be torn as well. In any case you can see daylight though that 3rd boot...
Seriously? WTF???
10-08-2010, 11:57 AM
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so I wrote a letter...
I apoligize for the length of this post I just wanted to get this all out there.
So I wrote a letter to the owner of the shop. Nothing official, just a letter (see below) from me to him, customer to service provider to explain how I was not happy with the services received and what I expected to be done about it. I dropped by yesterday (after calling to make sure the owner was there) and gave him the letter (below).
He bitched and complained about how he didn't do anything wrong and how there was no way this happened at his shop and the shifter boot was already torn b/c it had dirt in the tear and blah, blah, blah. I just let him rant and rave and I waited for him to finish. And expained how each of the items were cause by his improper removal of the transmission (by his own admission they did not drop it but only unbolted and slid it backwards) and how they did not disconnect everything from the tranny first and it caused these problems including tearing the shifter boot in two places. (based on the location of the tears on the boot and the scratches on the shift lever, my guess is he tried to drop or slide the tranny with the shifter in place...
)
I told him I'm not trying to bust his balls or get in a pissing contest, but he still needed to make it right. He said, "this is all bulls41t, but I will take care of it". I don't know why he was not able to just accept responsibility for the faulty work and fix it...
He went on to complain about how he should have charged me $1,700 for the work if he knew it was going to be this big of a deal. He did admit that it was his fault for not quoting that price if he really thought thats what it would have cost.
He eventually agreed to fix the listed items that were magically damaged through no fault of his shop. Then he explained how busy he was and couldn't just drop everything to fix my vehicle again, so I offered to bring it back on Monday if he couldn't get to it untill then anyway. (I don't think I'm being unreasonably demanding.) So I will be dropping it back off on Monday to see what else they can damage... There will probably be a decapitated horse head or something in there when I get it back...
I have pics of all the damage if anyone is interested...
So I wrote a letter to the owner of the shop. Nothing official, just a letter (see below) from me to him, customer to service provider to explain how I was not happy with the services received and what I expected to be done about it. I dropped by yesterday (after calling to make sure the owner was there) and gave him the letter (below).
He bitched and complained about how he didn't do anything wrong and how there was no way this happened at his shop and the shifter boot was already torn b/c it had dirt in the tear and blah, blah, blah. I just let him rant and rave and I waited for him to finish. And expained how each of the items were cause by his improper removal of the transmission (by his own admission they did not drop it but only unbolted and slid it backwards) and how they did not disconnect everything from the tranny first and it caused these problems including tearing the shifter boot in two places. (based on the location of the tears on the boot and the scratches on the shift lever, my guess is he tried to drop or slide the tranny with the shifter in place...
)I told him I'm not trying to bust his balls or get in a pissing contest, but he still needed to make it right. He said, "this is all bulls41t, but I will take care of it". I don't know why he was not able to just accept responsibility for the faulty work and fix it...
He went on to complain about how he should have charged me $1,700 for the work if he knew it was going to be this big of a deal. He did admit that it was his fault for not quoting that price if he really thought thats what it would have cost.He eventually agreed to fix the listed items that were magically damaged through no fault of his shop. Then he explained how busy he was and couldn't just drop everything to fix my vehicle again, so I offered to bring it back on Monday if he couldn't get to it untill then anyway. (I don't think I'm being unreasonably demanding.) So I will be dropping it back off on Monday to see what else they can damage... There will probably be a decapitated horse head or something in there when I get it back...
Originally Posted by Letter To The Shop
Dear <censored>:
I am very dissatisfied and disappointed in the service I have received thus far from your shop. You came highly recommended by the <censored> family and I was looking forward to having a quality repair job done on my vehicle. When I dropped my vehicle at your repair shop, the components mentioned had never been removed, repaired, touched, or damaged in any way. Also my check engine light had never been illuminated. During the repair process several items were broken or damaged during the clutch replacement on my vehicle. The following repair work needs to be done before I can begin to consider the job done:
Sincerely,
<censored>
I am very dissatisfied and disappointed in the service I have received thus far from your shop. You came highly recommended by the <censored> family and I was looking forward to having a quality repair job done on my vehicle. When I dropped my vehicle at your repair shop, the components mentioned had never been removed, repaired, touched, or damaged in any way. Also my check engine light had never been illuminated. During the repair process several items were broken or damaged during the clutch replacement on my vehicle. The following repair work needs to be done before I can begin to consider the job done:
- Replace the faulty or incorrectly installed throw-out bearing
- Replace transmission shifter boot at the top of the transmission, it is currently torn and not correctly installed
- Replace middle shifter boot, this boot is torn at the top and bottom
- Replace Transfer Case shifter linkage retaining clip
- Relocate and Refasten Fuel line bracket on passenger side of transmission into factory location
- Repair / Adjust shifter lever to correct position, it is currently rotated to one side and has excess rotational play in it
Sincerely,
<censored>
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10-08-2010, 03:06 PM
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I hope they get it right for you....
Mine is on it's third clutch at 78K miles. It was one of the first 2007's, bought it in Nov of '06, and have had clutch problems since the beginning. The first clutch friction plate they shipped was not right, and my original dealer resurfaced it twice and replaced it twice (one of those was the recall, with the second run of the clutch plates). They never did get it quite right. And similarly damaged all of the shift boots on their last attempt.
Recently the throwout bearing started howling and I took it in to a different dealer, and explained the whole ordeal.
Of course by this time it was long out of warranty....
They took it all apart, and brought me back in to talk to the mechanic and show me the damage. The original dealer had really messed things up. I ended up replacing
pilot bearing, throwout bearing, flywheel, clutch disc, pressure plate and all the boots. Now that it is back together with all new clutch assemblies, it runs better than when I bought it new.
One point to mention is apparently the flywheel friction surface is not 100% flat, it tapers slightly and should not be machined to flat. If it is, it will chatter and make horrible noises..
My original dealer did this, despite the repair bulletin stating not to do so.
At any rate, if you do the clutch work, I recommend replacing it all while you are in there. The expense is the labor, parts are comparatively cheap.
--thrash
Recently the throwout bearing started howling and I took it in to a different dealer, and explained the whole ordeal.
Of course by this time it was long out of warranty....
They took it all apart, and brought me back in to talk to the mechanic and show me the damage. The original dealer had really messed things up. I ended up replacing
pilot bearing, throwout bearing, flywheel, clutch disc, pressure plate and all the boots. Now that it is back together with all new clutch assemblies, it runs better than when I bought it new.
One point to mention is apparently the flywheel friction surface is not 100% flat, it tapers slightly and should not be machined to flat. If it is, it will chatter and make horrible noises..
My original dealer did this, despite the repair bulletin stating not to do so.
At any rate, if you do the clutch work, I recommend replacing it all while you are in there. The expense is the labor, parts are comparatively cheap.
--thrash
10-08-2010, 07:30 PM
#9
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Thanks for your comments Thrash!
10-09-2010, 02:01 PM
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From the factory manual for my 2007:
FLYWHEEL
Check flywheel runout whenever misalignment is suspected. Flywheel runout should not exceed 0.08 mm (0.003 in.). Measure runout at the outer edge of the flywheel face with a dial indicator. Mount the indicator on a stud installed in place of one of the flywheel bolts.
Common causes of runout are:
heat warpage
improper machining
incorrect bolt tightening
improper seating on crankshaft flange shoulder
foreign material on crankshaft flange
Flywheel machining is not recommended. The flywheel clutch surface is machined to a unique contour and machining will negate this feature. Minor flywheel scoring can be cleaned up by hand with 180 grit emery or with surface grinding equipment. Remove only enough material to reduce scoring (approximately 0.001 - 0.003 in.). Heavy stock removal is not recommended. Replace the flywheel if scoring is severe and deeper than 0.076 mm (0.003 in.). Excessive stock removal can result in flywheel cracking or warpage after installation; it can also weaken the flywheel and interfere with proper clutch release.
Clean the crankshaft flange before mounting the flywheel. Dirt and grease on the flange surface may cock the flywheel causing excessive runout. Use new bolts when remounting a flywheel and secure the bolts with Mopar Lock And Seal or equivalent. Tighten flywheel bolts to specified torque only. Overtightening can distort the flywheel hub causing runout.