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Please help with choosing lockers for my needs...

 
Old 02-05-2019, 06:10 AM
  #11  
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I don't see why you would want a limited slip in the front?
Granted I've never had a LSD. The lunch box locker in the
front only works while your in 4 wheel drive. So on road driving
is not effected. The first locker I ever had was a Spartan and I
loved it. Since then I've had Eaton E-lockers and I've had
ARB air lockers.
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Old 02-05-2019, 06:23 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by JKUsport16 View Post
I don't see why you would want a limited slip in the front?
Granted I've never had a LSD. The lunch box locker in the
front only works while your in 4 wheel drive. So on road driving
is not effected.
The one thing I'd say is that sometimes you might use 4WD while on the road (inclement weather and such...ice snow), and in that case you might not want to be "locked". If purely an offroad rig, I'd completely agree with your statement, but for something that is a daily driver and for someone that might not do heavy offroading, an LSD is actually a really nice compromise. I've wheeled with someone with that setup....LSD up front and locked in the rear. I was actually quite impressed with their capability....and usually the type of things I'm wheeling require lockers to some extent.....so it got a work out.
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Old 02-05-2019, 06:31 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by JKUsport16 View Post
I don't see why you would want a limited slip in the front?
Granted I've never had a LSD. The lunch box locker in the
front only works while your in 4 wheel drive. So on road driving
is not effected. The first locker I ever had was a Spartan and I
loved it. Since then I've had Eaton E-lockers and I've had
ARB air lockers.
Many are pretty happy with the Detroit TrueTrac LSDs, and is likely the reason the OP mentioned it in his initial post, but probably didn't realize it's not a "locker" in the true sense of the word.

When I look at it in regards to a locker vs TrueTrac LSD front, I feel the benefit to the TrueTrac is that you wouldn't have the steering bind when turning associated with a Locker and a locked front axle, but when there is spin (loss of traction) on one of the front wheels, then that spin is detected by the Truetrac and it automatically engages and transfers power to the other front tire which is not spinning. It's all gear driven and has been known to be a much more robust system when compared to LSDs which use clutches and those clutch designed LSDs is what often gives LSDs a bad name. Essentially, I feel the Detroit TrueTrac is the best solution for those of us who daily drive our JKs in that it is on all the time and engages when you need it, and disengages when you don't...which is pretty much how a locker is used but the benefit to the TrueTrac is that you get additional benefits from it when driving at higher speeds on slippery highways.

In the case of the Detroit TrueTrac It's a "Torsen" differential. Jump to 6:00, where this guy explains how it works.

Last edited by Rednroll; 02-05-2019 at 06:49 AM.
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Old 02-05-2019, 06:52 AM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by resharp001 View Post
I've wheeled with someone with that setup....LSD up front and locked in the rear. I was actually quite impressed with their capability....and usually the type of things I'm wheeling require lockers to some extent.....so it got a work out.
Curious to know if he let you drive it. I'ld like to know how it felt when turning and if you noticed any drag of any type with that front LSD.

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Old 02-05-2019, 07:07 AM
  #15  
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Nah, I didn't drive it. He seemed really happy with it in general though. Jeep was his DD, and I'd say he would generally be a lighter offroader, but also the kinda person that was totally game to follow you through just about anything as long as they saw a couple people do it first.
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:18 AM
  #16  
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Ok.....down here in the South we hardly just drive around in 4 hi unless there is the
occasional snow in which case you wouldn't notice the steering like you mentioned.


I need to remember that I'm not a rock crawler any more......LOL

Last edited by JKUsport16; 02-05-2019 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 02-05-2019, 10:36 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Rednroll View Post
Curious to know if he let you drive it. I'ld like to know how it felt when turning and if you noticed any drag of any type with that front LSD.

I have Truetracs front and rear on a 13 JKU and don't notice any drag. I opted for them over lockers because I dont usually have tires off the ground. They have worked great in snow, on the beach and in NJ sugar sand. The best part is the rear is always there and I can go further in 2wd and dont have to worry about locking an axle.

Also with BLD and traction control the tires off the ground issue with the LSD are mostly negated. You can always apply a tiny bit of brake pressure to transfer the torque back to the tire on the ground.
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Old 02-05-2019, 11:03 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Rednroll View Post
So if he's going to have to re-gear that front Dana 30 anyways, wouldn't it make sense for essentially the cost of the traction device to include it with the re-gear work? He's talking about an LSD and not a locker, so does that change things?
We're really talking about a $400-$600 additional cost of the traction device for the D30, in this case the TrueTrac LSD. Holding off to wait and get a HD D44, adds an additional $2500+ to the equation along with the labor costs of removing and installing the new axle.

The TrueTrac also doesn't need the air compressor, CO2, or any other additional items to engage it. It works by sensing there is a loss of traction on one tire and then automatically locks the axle to transfer power to the other side. That's the nice thing about an LSD, it's there when you need it and engages/disengages when you don't and you don't have to be concerned with the setup of getting the other items to lock a locker.
To each their own, but that $4-600 additional for an LSD could be set aside for future axle savings, or used towards a nice selectable for the rear. You never recoup your initial investment, so if he plans on ever upgrading to a bigger axle (44, 60, etc.), he'll wish he hadn't bothered. My issue isn't with the traction device, but rather the $ being put into a D30.

But then again, my background in finance makes me anal about things like this. My ideology is more long-term, minimized losses. For some folks those few hundred dollars you lose is no big deal for some traction now. To each their own.

Personally I wouldn't stress a traction device in the front unless you're building axles you're content with, or spending a lot of time rock crawling or on slick trails. Usually the rear locker can get you out of anything, I hardly engage the front.

Last edited by BoraBora; 02-05-2019 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 02-05-2019, 12:55 PM
  #19  
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Various versions of this same story have been posted by our (former?) Dynatrac rep regarding his findings on the usefulness of the Detroit Truetrac type limited slip. This particular one was in a thread about Limited Slips, not lockers, I chose it just because it is the shorter version:

The TT is your best option. For off road use a gear driven LSD (like the TT) is the only real LSD option we should consider. Clutch driven LSDs wear out very fast when a tire is lifted and spun. With a gear driven unit like the TT, free spinning the tire doesn't cause any damage and you don't lose any LSD function.

Years back I had Detroit Electracs in both ends of my Jeep. The Electrac was an electric selectable built by Tractech (the builder of the Detroit Locker before Eaton bought the Co.). It was TT based then switched to full lock. On one run where we had a lot of snow, mud and steep hills with wet roots the TT really showed its worth. I had numerous friends on the run that had ARBs. All day long I could hear them turning on and off their lockers. Never once that day did I use the lockers. I used only the TT LSD function the entire day. What that day showed me, very clearly, is that when most people hit the locker (ARB or similar) it's not because they need a locker, it's because they need something better than open.

For a moderate wheeler or a DD, the TT is a great option.
For what it's worth, I ran front/rear detroit lockers in colorado. Didn't like the front auto-locker on snow and ice, so swapped to a truetrac. A few years later when the rear axle imploded, I replaced that detroit with a truetrac also. For 'MY' use, which is not hardcare by any stretch, the truetracs were perfect, and much more user friendly onroad than auto-lockers.
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:45 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by BoraBora View Post
To each their own, but that $4-600 additional for an LSD could be set aside for future axle savings, or used towards a nice selectable for the rear. You never recoup your initial investment, so if he plans on ever upgrading to a bigger axle (44, 60, etc.), he'll wish he hadn't bothered. My issue isn't with the traction device, but rather the $ being put into a D30.

But then again, my background in finance makes me anal about things like this. My ideology is more long-term, minimized losses. For some folks those few hundred dollars you lose is no big deal for some traction now. To each their own.

Personally I wouldn't stress a traction device in the front unless you're building axles you're content with, or spending a lot of time rock crawling or on slick trails. Usually the rear locker can get you out of anything, I hardly engage the front.
It's really not a to each their own. I feel we're really saying the same thing but I'm taking it one further step backwards for everything you just described for the reasons you don't want to invest in a traction device for the D30. Why invest the $ into a regear of the D30? A regear just for the front will run you $700+. So what you just described for the reasons of not adding a locker or Detroit TT to the D30 no longer applies for the regear expenses? Why not put that $700+ for the regear towards the axle upgrade which already includes the gears you want just like you described?

When I've been weighing things out there's really 2 options to consider in the decision making process and other options just seem like foolish reasoning and puts you on the path of the non ideology long-term path as you describe.

Option 1. Front HD Axle replacement. More costly but gets you what you really want and will likely cost less in the long run. It will give you the gear size you want without paying for the actual regear expense on the D30.

Option 2. Regear D30. To me if you made the decision you're going to invest in the regear expenses on the D30 and justified going that route over replacing the D30 axle, then you might as well include the expense of adding a traction device with that regear so you actually gain something for that $ you decided to invest. Why make a half assed investment decision on the D30? It seems like a pinch a penny and waste a dollar decision approach.

Last edited by Rednroll; 02-05-2019 at 02:32 PM.
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