6 Speed Transmission is EXTREMELY difficult to put into ANY gear
11-18-2017, 09:35 AM
#11
While I agree 100% on the bench bleed method, unfortunately you have little hope of actually transferring the assembly (the JK hose is rigid plastic too) back to the Jeep without breaking the system back open in an effort to install. You'd also have to design some kind of temporary reservoir since the brake master is integral to the clutch. And if you are just replacing the slave, it's certainly adding much more work.
The dealer is using the pressure method (that's why it takes them minimal time). This requires a $150 reservoir adapter (see link below) and a pressure bleed system that can range from a DIY kit up to $200+. If you use it multiple times in your wrenching ventures, it could be worth it over paying the dealer to do one job.
I can't speak for the OP or anyone else having bleeding issues but I've done one of these and don't recall a ton of frustration so maybe there's more going on than bleeding (LIKE THE O-RING LOST FROM THE TUBE DURING INSTALLATION). But here is a copy/paste from the service manual for assistance. I will add, all it takes is one time that you don't close the bleeder before releasing the pedal and it negates all of your previous time/effort bleeding and actually makes it more difficult as you've now injected more air into the system than was likely there to start with. Same applies if you let the reservoir run out of fluid during the process.
06 - Clutch / Standard Procedure
STANDARD PROCEDURE - BLEED CLUTCH HYDRAULIC CIRCUIT
Special Tools: Click to display a list of tools used in this procedure
https://www.moparessentialtools.com/...004&type=tools
Use Mopar brake fluid, or an equivalent quality fluid meeting SAE J1703-F and DOT 3 standards only. Use fresh, clean fluid from a sealed container at all times.
Do not allow the master cylinder to run out of fluid during bleed operations. An empty cylinder will allow additional air to be drawn into the system. Check the cylinder fluid level frequently and add fluid as needed.
BLEED CLUTCH HYDRAULIC CIRCUIT
1.Verify fluid level in brake master cylinder, top off brake fluid as necessary.
NOTE:
Pre filling a new slave cylinder will reduce bleeding time required.
2.Install a length of clear hose to divert fluid into suitable container.
3.Push and hold clutch pedal down, open bleeder (1) on slave cylinder (2), allow fluid to bleed out, then close bleeder. Repeat this step several times until no air is observed coming out of the bleeder.
4.Remove drain hose and replace dust cap on bleeder and install slave cylinder on transmission.
5.Actuate clutch pedal 25 times, then start engine and verify clutch operation and pedal feel. If pedal feels spongy or clutch does not fully disengage, air is still trapped in the hydraulic circuit and must be bleed again.
PRESSURE BLEED CLUTCH HYDRAULIC CIRCUIT
Follow manufacturers instructions carefully when using pressure equipment. Do not exceed the tank manufacturers pressure recommendations. Generally, a tank pressure of 15-20 psi is sufficient for bleeding.
Fill bleeder tank with recommended DOT 3 fluid and purge air from the tank lines before bleeding.
Do not pressure bleed without a proper master cylinder adapter. The wrong adapter can lead to leakage, or drawing air back into the system. Use adapter provided with the equipment or Adapter 6921 .
The dealer is using the pressure method (that's why it takes them minimal time). This requires a $150 reservoir adapter (see link below) and a pressure bleed system that can range from a DIY kit up to $200+. If you use it multiple times in your wrenching ventures, it could be worth it over paying the dealer to do one job.
I can't speak for the OP or anyone else having bleeding issues but I've done one of these and don't recall a ton of frustration so maybe there's more going on than bleeding (LIKE THE O-RING LOST FROM THE TUBE DURING INSTALLATION). But here is a copy/paste from the service manual for assistance. I will add, all it takes is one time that you don't close the bleeder before releasing the pedal and it negates all of your previous time/effort bleeding and actually makes it more difficult as you've now injected more air into the system than was likely there to start with. Same applies if you let the reservoir run out of fluid during the process.
06 - Clutch / Standard Procedure
STANDARD PROCEDURE - BLEED CLUTCH HYDRAULIC CIRCUIT
Special Tools: Click to display a list of tools used in this procedure
https://www.moparessentialtools.com/...004&type=tools
Use Mopar brake fluid, or an equivalent quality fluid meeting SAE J1703-F and DOT 3 standards only. Use fresh, clean fluid from a sealed container at all times.
Do not allow the master cylinder to run out of fluid during bleed operations. An empty cylinder will allow additional air to be drawn into the system. Check the cylinder fluid level frequently and add fluid as needed.
BLEED CLUTCH HYDRAULIC CIRCUIT
1.Verify fluid level in brake master cylinder, top off brake fluid as necessary.
NOTE:
Pre filling a new slave cylinder will reduce bleeding time required.
2.Install a length of clear hose to divert fluid into suitable container.
3.Push and hold clutch pedal down, open bleeder (1) on slave cylinder (2), allow fluid to bleed out, then close bleeder. Repeat this step several times until no air is observed coming out of the bleeder.
4.Remove drain hose and replace dust cap on bleeder and install slave cylinder on transmission.
5.Actuate clutch pedal 25 times, then start engine and verify clutch operation and pedal feel. If pedal feels spongy or clutch does not fully disengage, air is still trapped in the hydraulic circuit and must be bleed again.
PRESSURE BLEED CLUTCH HYDRAULIC CIRCUIT
Follow manufacturers instructions carefully when using pressure equipment. Do not exceed the tank manufacturers pressure recommendations. Generally, a tank pressure of 15-20 psi is sufficient for bleeding.
Fill bleeder tank with recommended DOT 3 fluid and purge air from the tank lines before bleeding.
Do not pressure bleed without a proper master cylinder adapter. The wrong adapter can lead to leakage, or drawing air back into the system. Use adapter provided with the equipment or Adapter 6921 .
11-18-2017, 10:00 AM
#12
https://www.amazon.com/Motive-Produc...70_&dpSrc=srch
https://www.amazon.com/Motive-Produc...KY634PMXMX48GQ
$70 investment makes it a no brainer.
Hell, I might even get one now....
https://www.amazon.com/Motive-Produc...KY634PMXMX48GQ
$70 investment makes it a no brainer.
Hell, I might even get one now....
Last edited by fredrok; 11-18-2017 at 10:03 AM.
11-18-2017, 08:43 PM
#13
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
Guys, I really appreciate all the help and suggestions. Keep 'em coming!
So turn out the new slave cylinder that I bought from auto zone was defective. 10 mins after trying to bleed it, I noticed fluid dripping from the bell housing. I pulled out the slave cylinder and the boot that protects the piston rod was FULL of brake fluid. I went to the dealer and bought a new slave cylinder. I followed the instructions posted above step by step. I can finally get the jeep into gear again but it takes a lot of force to get it into 1st. So basically I'm back to square one. Im going to gravity bleed it and if that doesn't work I'll have to try out that pressure bleeder that was suggested
So turn out the new slave cylinder that I bought from auto zone was defective. 10 mins after trying to bleed it, I noticed fluid dripping from the bell housing. I pulled out the slave cylinder and the boot that protects the piston rod was FULL of brake fluid. I went to the dealer and bought a new slave cylinder. I followed the instructions posted above step by step. I can finally get the jeep into gear again but it takes a lot of force to get it into 1st. So basically I'm back to square one. Im going to gravity bleed it and if that doesn't work I'll have to try out that pressure bleeder that was suggested
11-18-2017, 09:35 PM
#14
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
And about that pesky o ring..... I've looked all over for it but I really don't think my Jeep has that special o ring that everyone talks about. The line that hooks up to the slave cylinder has an o ring on it but theres nothing special about it. Could it be that the special o ring only came on certain models?
11-28-2017, 08:44 PM
#17
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
*** PROBLEM FIXED ***
Fist of all, thanks to all the folks that tried to help me resolve this issue! Your help is greatly appreciated!
So while installing the new clutch I made a rookie mistake that cost me $500 dollars in parts and many hours of frustration. After my second slave cylinder started leaking from the piston I then bought a third one. Bleed the system again and still nothing. At this point I suspected that I did something wrong when installing the clutch but just to be sure I went ahead and replaced the master cylinder as well. I bleed the system again and still no results. I then pulled the tranny over thanksgiving break to investigate the issue. I noticed that the teeth on the pressure plate weren't even. After further inspection, half of the bolts on one side were loose causing the teeth on the pressure plate to be more compressed on one side. Since the teeth on the pressure plate was uneven, when the throwout bearing was pushed against the pressure plate to disengage the clutch, the unevenness of the pressure plate did not allow the clutch to disengage.
The reason why the bolts on the pressure plate were lose is because I torqued them to in-lbs and not to ft-lbs...
I re-torqued every bolt to ft-lbs, put in a new throwout bearing (just in case), and bolted the tranny back up. This fixed my problem right away!
Just a word of caution to anyone replacing their salve or master cylinder:
A while back I sow a write up where a guy bled his slave by compressing the piston of the slave outside the tranny, so that the bubbles would be pushed out the top of the revisor. While this seems effective, I think this is what made my two slave cylinders leak. The reason why I think this is what made them leak is because as you bleed the slave, there is more force being outputted into the piston and this causes the piston to over extended and eventually break the seal on the piston shaft. The best method to bleed the system would be to pressure bleed it, like someone suggested above. Bench bleeding the system would be very hard to do in this set up. So, if you are replacing either of those components, bleed the system the old fashion way or by using a pressure bleeder.
Also this might sound a little goofy but, I found that O'reilly's has the best quality slave and master cylinder. Their slave and master are both made from steel instead of plastic like the OEM one. Plus, on the slave, the bleeder valve is off to the side which makes the bleeding process easier.
Fist of all, thanks to all the folks that tried to help me resolve this issue! Your help is greatly appreciated!
So while installing the new clutch I made a rookie mistake that cost me $500 dollars in parts and many hours of frustration. After my second slave cylinder started leaking from the piston I then bought a third one. Bleed the system again and still nothing. At this point I suspected that I did something wrong when installing the clutch but just to be sure I went ahead and replaced the master cylinder as well. I bleed the system again and still no results. I then pulled the tranny over thanksgiving break to investigate the issue. I noticed that the teeth on the pressure plate weren't even. After further inspection, half of the bolts on one side were loose causing the teeth on the pressure plate to be more compressed on one side. Since the teeth on the pressure plate was uneven, when the throwout bearing was pushed against the pressure plate to disengage the clutch, the unevenness of the pressure plate did not allow the clutch to disengage.
The reason why the bolts on the pressure plate were lose is because I torqued them to in-lbs and not to ft-lbs...
I re-torqued every bolt to ft-lbs, put in a new throwout bearing (just in case), and bolted the tranny back up. This fixed my problem right away!
Just a word of caution to anyone replacing their salve or master cylinder:
A while back I sow a write up where a guy bled his slave by compressing the piston of the slave outside the tranny, so that the bubbles would be pushed out the top of the revisor. While this seems effective, I think this is what made my two slave cylinders leak. The reason why I think this is what made them leak is because as you bleed the slave, there is more force being outputted into the piston and this causes the piston to over extended and eventually break the seal on the piston shaft. The best method to bleed the system would be to pressure bleed it, like someone suggested above. Bench bleeding the system would be very hard to do in this set up. So, if you are replacing either of those components, bleed the system the old fashion way or by using a pressure bleeder.
Also this might sound a little goofy but, I found that O'reilly's has the best quality slave and master cylinder. Their slave and master are both made from steel instead of plastic like the OEM one. Plus, on the slave, the bleeder valve is off to the side which makes the bleeding process easier.