There's no reason to be snide about this. It's a shame that this forum often becomes a modern-day outlet for people who miss the trash talking they used to do on their CB radios.

I won't dignify your comments except to repeat my point that it's hard to believe that (using the other guy's estimate) a third of JK owners can't put either top up correctly. But even if we assume that he's correct, what should we conclude about product designs that can't be manipulated by a third of the people who own them? My dealer couldn't solve the problem but he's an honest man, and I'm sure he reported what the factory rep told him accurately when he said that Jeep realizes it has a huge problem on its hands.

 

I was not trying to be a smart A%$. I am just looking at this problem logically. Most of the people that own JK's don't end up on internet forums unless they have a problem, so statistically you have to reason that less people in the general population have the problem than the % that do on this forum.

I am an engineer and I design systems that range from $250k to over a million dollars and we have the same problems. You CANNOT make something 100% idiot proof there will always be someone out there that will figure out how to break it no matter how much design time and money you throw at it.

Now with that said If they made the panel strong enough that they would not warp your average person would not be able to lift them off. If they used some type of composite material to make it lighter they could easily make the tops cost several thousand a piece.

Its a trade off you can't have light and cheap and strong at the same time.

Now as far as trying to have it fixed. I don't trust dealership techs to do anything right. If they replace the seals but the top is warped if can still leak. I have heard too many stories of people finding inner panels half on. Bolts missing. Things just not put back together right because they are in such a hurry. On warrantee work they get paid X amount of hours for this type of job. If it takes them longer to do it they just lost money. if they get it done in less time they can move on to the next job and make MORE money.


I am not trying to fight, I am just stating your demands from Jeep and just not going to get you anywhere. Find another dealer and try again at having it fixed.

 

Check the thread: I wasn't replying to you. I was reacting to the fact that one minute some of us are discussing a prevalent problem in what I think is the ideal place to do it, and the next minute some pea-brain Freudian jumps out of the woodwork and starts analyzing me.

For the record, I'm not demanding anything of Jeep. I'm on record with my dealer, and he with me, that if and when Jeep redesigns the tops, seals, et al, he'll go to the mat with Chrysler to get them for me. We agreed to this in lieu of my bringing my truck back to him 78 times, and tieing up his techs, over something they can't fix.

Again, backtracking through this thread, it's remarkable to me that people are willing to accept the fact that a manufactured product is OK if a third of the people who own one can't operate it without breaking it. I don't think the issues are owner-induced, anyway -- I think the designs are flawed.

That's it for me.

 

No what is truly remarkable is that you took it to your dealer 78 times..... You should know that the definition of insanity is repeating the same exercise and expecting different results, over and over again.

I did not post to put you down or demoralize you. You are just upset because I am not telling you what you want to hear.

You might not realize it but I was trying to help you. I was trying to encourage you to try a different dealer and push for them to replace more. Like the whole Panels with new seals. Or take some measurement of yours and a new one they have on the lot. See if something is not the same. You can sit back and wait for jeep to redesign your "Flawed Design". Or you can try and find the cause. If you took it to your dealer more that 3 times and they didn't fix it they don't know what they are doing. I would have to say from the time I have spent on this forum most problems people have are bad Dealerships. Anything can be built with a flaw but if the dealer took care of it on the FIRST try most problems wouldn't even be remembered.

 

I posted this to another thread, but I guess it's worth repeating:
I've had a leak from day one. I would have about a coke bottle cap amout of water above the mygig when it rained, but was able to figure out the problem without taking it back to the dealer. I had my hard top off a few weeks ago, but when I put it back on, I didn't tighten the top two torx screws down as much; only finger tight with a quarter turn with the wrench. And I just snugged the beer can screws underneath. The way I see it, when the screws are over-tightened, it pulls the hard top out of shape in the area immediately around the screw. This causes the rubber on the removeable top not to seal as tight. I've been through several huge storms since and haven't had one drop fall on my dash since.

 

That could have something to do with it. Like I said I don't even have those screws in mine. I had them out all last summer and have had them out the last month or so this year.

Another observation I have what is the summer on a hot sunny day the panels are really really HOT. If the screws are too tight or the top is not on right this could easily warp the top and once it cools be that way forever unless you make a special jig and heat it back up and put pressure in the right spot to straighten it out. The best solution at this point is all new panels. Maybe a whole new top if its the back section that's warped.




I just don't understand this "Flawed Design" There is not a single company that has even been able to make a Convertible top or "T" tops that have not leaked ever. Its just not possible unless you want to pay $30k just for the top alone. If it cost that much no one would ever buy it.