B.S.

I think the 3.8 is fine for power in a two door with manual tranny, I've been driving that. It does get more progressively underpowered as you add the automatic and then add four doors.

I've driven a friends 2 door automatic and I could feel a difference and I haven't driven an Unlimited with auto tranny but I bet it is definitely feeling a bit under powered.

Me....I'll only buy a Wrangler in 2 door and wouldn't consider a four door, and I'd never buy an automatic either unless some physical limitation deemed it necessary.

I've never done the math to check the power to weight ratio of the 2 door JK to the 2 door TJ. I know the JK is heavier but it does have a bit more power than the 4.0 straight six had so the power to weight ratio must be similar. I never felt that the TJ with manual tranny was under powered either.

So......does anybody have any concrete info on whether the JK will get an exterior redesign for the '12 model year?

Thanks,

B.S.

Zilon X

http://project-jk.com/wpg2?g2_itemId=122974

http://project-jk.com/wpg2?g2_itemId=123013


I bet this is something coming to the 2012 Wrangler: more angled windshield, pentastar... liked those door handles and flares. A new hood like the AEV one, but windshield conversion compatible, would be so nice...

Chrysler, please give us a Diesel and a MDS V8 option!

higgins14

if we want to speculate what the next jeep will look like, then lets look at jeep concepts from a quick GIS of "jeep wrangler concept"

edit:
the pictures didn't embed... i am working fixing their links














I have the ok from the household cfo to buy a jeep, but on the condition that i keep it for atleast 6 years. i want an unlimited now, but after test driving an auto and a 6 speed... lets be honest, it is underpowered. i actually really like the new interior. i think it is worth waiting for the penta star. the big question will be the exterior.

i think that we can assume that for the redesign there will be
-round headlights
-flat(ish) front fenders
-new engine options (pentastar, hybrid, electric)
-a laid back windshield and possibly a top that appears to be "chopped" like in the lower 40 concept and the tomahawk
-flusher hinges and other cues to streamline the body lines... the rescue pretty much became the unlimited. i like the belt line on the recue
-more emphasis on the unlimited. i don;t know the numbers but i see way more of them on the road than the 2 doors. they are more expensive to buy, but i cant imagine that much more to manufacture

for the generation after that
-i bet that the "roll cage" will be the outside of the uni-body with fiberglass panels that come off making it an open top vehicle similar to the tomahawk, but with more of the top coming off. i think this would be cool, but way to radical of a change for a "purist"
-

anyone else have any speculations or pics of jeep concepts? most of the concepts i posted are pretty old. you can see how they used styling cues from each concept in a bunch of their different vehicles.

B.S.

I agree the Unlimited is a bit heavy for the power made by the 3.8, more so with the automatic but even with the manual tranny it needs a bit more umph. The automatic Unlimited is the bulk of the Wrangler market these days so more motor for the Unlimited would be good. Even so though the Unlimited with auto sells pretty well.

I'm going to look at the images you've found. I'm really hoping that the updated exterior comes much later when the next ground up redesign occurs.

B.S.

higgins14

the reality of the jeep is that they know they will sell tons of 4 dr autos to people with no intentions of bringing them to off road trails. i bet they love it, much fewer warantee claims. i would be ok with the performance if they used less gas. i don;t want a wrangler to drive fast, but i do want to be able to get out of my own way if i need to. sometimes it is just as important to be able to speed up to avoid something as it is to slow down. the unlimited stinks in both of those categories.

i wouldn't worry too much about radical changes in the next redesign. i bet it will look even more like the rescue, bit with a higher belt line (like the lower 40) and a more sloped windshield.

i think i have accepted that i am waiting a year or so for a jeep. oh well. my wrx wagon is still a fun car. i have a feelign if i pull the trigger on the 2010, i will only have regrets after seeing what comes out in the future. i just don;t want to wait longer than a year and a half.

Zilon X

Well, the lower forty isn't a concept after all, it is a modified JK - there are some JKs more modified than that already. His mods show similarities with what appears inside people are telling.

The concepts, and I'm talking about every auto maker, shows a lot of crap and wannabes that will never enter production. If Chrysler listens to real users and consumers, we can get perfect JKs - no bling needed, just real technology and a Diesel and/or a Hemi.

B.S.

Now that I see the Rescue again (above) I remember how much a liked the concept (and the color). I remember Jeep saying that it may be built and be offered along side the Wrangler but it would be a larger vehicle. I remember thinking "a cool new full sized CJ/Wrangler inspired vehicle". Well the rescue didn't happen, though it's still so friggin' sweet. But now I see how much that concept influenced the Unlimited. Hell, if the '11 Wrangler Unlimited was offered in a painted hardtop and in Rescue Green it would look a lot like the Rescue concept.

I'm not quiet about my feelings about the Unlimited. I don't like that it's called a "Wrangler" to me the Wrangler (should still be called CJ) is meant to only be a 2 door direct descendant of the CJ and so on. Don't get me wrong I understand the Unlimited and why it exists. I'm even glad it's there to bolster Wrangler sales and thus ensure survival of the line. I just wish they would have called it something other than Wrangler Unlimited. Now that I see this picture of the Resuce again....I think Jeep should have called the Wrangler Unlimited the "Jeep Rescue" it's clearly the inspiration for the Unlimited. Oh, and it's still H.O. friggin T. "HOT"!

Thanks for posting the pic's!!!!

Oh, and I don't like the extra sloped windshield and some of what I see in the other pictures (except for the Gladiator who doesn't like it?) . Maybe I should be jumping on the '11 and not wait for motor updates. What's the worst that could happen.....the '12 could come out with the same styling as the '11 and with a diesel option? In that case I'd give up the '11 and get a '12 and deal with the small loss at trade in time. But if I go on and get the '11 I can enjoy it and then if the styling of the '12 takes a nose dive I'll be happy that I went with a new '11. Eh?

Thanks!

B.S.

JeepaRoo

wranglers have such good sale / trade values I dont worry about what may come out... if I want a new one i just go get it..

I personally may not have made the 08 to 09 sdwitch if it hadnt been for the 08 being a lemon..

but the switch for me going from 09 to 10 was pretty sure handed since i wanted to go from man. to auto, and 4 door to 2 door... 11? likely i wont touch it.. although I like the new interior but many changes - first year - can spell trouble...

then again if '12 brings a new engine im not gonna want to touch that either...

though id love to see a diesel in a wrangler for trail value.. to me it doesnt make much sense on the street... regular gas is $2.50 a gallon and diesel is $3.00 a gallon.. im not gonna see THAT much overall average MPG gains to justify the loss in street power that the 2.8 CRD would bring....

the pentastar makes good street sense but to me absolutely no trail sense.. the common complaint of the 3.8 is that it makes its power up high, not down low.. the pentastar makes its power up even Higher... not so useful on the trail...

the wrangler really needs a fully electronic Camless engine that can be programmed to do whatever you need it to do...

it is a fact that advancing intake valve timing greatly increases your bottom end brute force on an engine.. while retarding intake valve timing greatly increases top end power....

racers have long fought this whether its beter to come off the line hot or whether its better to come into the power later...

Variable valve timing technology has the ability to make our Jeeps plentiful in power no matter where we want to drive them...

the trick is allowing the driver to select which "mode" to use... and thats where the fine aftermarket programmer folks should be able to come in and help...

-Christopher

B.S.

Christopher, thank you for the info. You've clearly put some thought into the Jeep motor situation. I've not thought about the possible differences between the 3.8 and 3.6. Now the diesel thing, yeah I've figured that one out, and would love a diesel though I don't think it would actually save me any $$$$$$. However, I think that if we get a diesel in the JK it'll be a FIAT diesel and I'm not so sure about that. I remember the Alfa Romeo I had years ago.....loved it.....but hated it too! LOL.

I'll probably give it about 4 to 5 more months and watch out for tidbits of info regarding the '12 JK and depending on what I hear make a '11 vs '12 decision then. No matter what I do I'm going to probably do a custom order and get exactly what I desire and then keep the sucker for a good while.

B.S.

higgins14

do we know what the power curve looks like on the pentastar in the grand cherokee? i remember a thread about the pentastar a while back when everyone was speculating if it would be in the 2011 wranglers, and no one had a dyno of the new motor. supposedly this engine is going to be used across the Chrysler line up, including some forced induction. Maybe (and this might be wishful thinking) the people at jeep didn't give us the pentastar in 2011 b/c they are tuning it to the needs of the jeepers, and not because they know that the jeeps sell themselves no mater what the powerplant is. maybe they are working on direct injection for the jeeps.

in the new subaru sti's, they have "si drive" where the driver can switch from factory engine maps in the ecm and boost levels. i wonder if the other cars in the Chrysler family will be offering some version of this feature with the pentastar. while it makes lots of sense in a performance car, i am sure it would be great in the jeeps. a map for fuel economy, a map for low end oomph in 4 wheel drive settings, and one for fun everyday semi spirited driving.

allpar states that "90% of torque is available from 1,600 to 6,400, so it's not a “peaky” or “paper horsepower” engine. Engineers are reportedly hard at work, seeing what they can do to keep increasing power even without direct injection, which seems to be on the back burner." i am not so sure that is giving us a lot of info. i would love to see a dyno graph comparing the 4.0, the 3.8 and the upcoming 3.6.

you mentioned something about variable valve timing, are you talking about something different than this from allpar? "Variable cam timing with dual independent cam phasing that helps to flatten the power output (The system uses separate cam phasers on each cam, so it can change the intake and the exhaust valve timing, achieving the same results as the dual variable valve timing system on the World Engine, but with a simpler, more durable design.)"

the wranglers do have great re-sale value. if my wife wouldn't kill me if i bought a left over 2010 and then turned around to trade it in in 2012, i would think about it. depending on the deal that could be gotten in the next few weeks on a 2010, i might think about getting one and asking for forgiveness in a few years with the re-design. i know that i am in the minority of people on this website... i do not plan on any real trail riding. i had my fun back in the day in my cj7, i just wont do it while paying for a $30,000 vehicle. i still hope that it is meant to get dirty, i will remove all of the rugs in the summertime and hose it clean every once in a while. as long as it can handle fire roads and i can strap a canoe or surf board on top and a bike rack on the rear tire, then that is all of the jeepyness i need. besides that i want the steering wheel controls, heated seats , a nice enough looking interior and a vehicle that can get out of its own way