Drivers Seat height dangerous
JK Freak
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 593
Likes: 0
From: oklahoma
Please don't take offense, but this sounds like an incredibly bad idea.
"A couple of weeks ago I noticed that my son's driving position in his JK was dangerous."
With respect: Is this based on analysis, or observation and opinion?
A lot of design engineering goes into seating position and human factors analysis. Fabricating your own brackets away from the factory design changes the load paths of forces in an accident.
Simply changing the angle of the seat could possibly induce fatal g loading onto your body in an accident by increasing the force transmitted through the frame to the new brackets. The seating is designed to be as survivable to the occupants as possible in an accident.
Also, did you use an equivalent or stronger material for your bracket fabrication? Does the heat treatment on the material grant the same properties as the original material in elasticity and strength?
Look, there is a reason things are designed the way they are. Please just make sure you are not taking an unnecessary risk just to increase your ride comfort!
There are aftermarket alternatives to the factory seats that you may find more comfortable or appropriate.
Be safe out there!
"A couple of weeks ago I noticed that my son's driving position in his JK was dangerous."
With respect: Is this based on analysis, or observation and opinion?
A lot of design engineering goes into seating position and human factors analysis. Fabricating your own brackets away from the factory design changes the load paths of forces in an accident.
Simply changing the angle of the seat could possibly induce fatal g loading onto your body in an accident by increasing the force transmitted through the frame to the new brackets. The seating is designed to be as survivable to the occupants as possible in an accident.
Also, did you use an equivalent or stronger material for your bracket fabrication? Does the heat treatment on the material grant the same properties as the original material in elasticity and strength?
Look, there is a reason things are designed the way they are. Please just make sure you are not taking an unnecessary risk just to increase your ride comfort!
There are aftermarket alternatives to the factory seats that you may find more comfortable or appropriate.
Be safe out there!
I've seen some horrible roll bar mods and bumper builds but, the new brackets look pretty good to me.
Once seen a roll bar made out of pvc
Great job!
Welcome to the forum!
Thread Starter
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
From: Craven
In reply to concerns....
I've been in the fabrication and welding trade for 28 years now and know a thing or 2 about materials, welding and load stresses.
This is my only son driving about in this jeep and if I wasn't happy I would have sold the jeep rather than put him in danger.
I used the jeep bolts so that the shear stength would be the same and the material I used was 1 gauge bigger.
That being said I feel he is in a much safer position now and he wouldn't smash his skull in from the rear in an accident.
goatee
This is my only son driving about in this jeep and if I wasn't happy I would have sold the jeep rather than put him in danger.
I used the jeep bolts so that the shear stength would be the same and the material I used was 1 gauge bigger.
That being said I feel he is in a much safer position now and he wouldn't smash his skull in from the rear in an accident.
goatee
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 301
Likes: 1
From: Thee Great Pacific Northwest, US
I'm 6'4" and sit upright & close to the steering wheel for a few reasons:
1. It gives me better control of vehicle & better viewing
2. I learned years ago in road racing vintage scca to sit close & upright
3. feels better on my sore lower back
my head "doesn't hit the sport bar", I have no idea how it would either?
The headrests aren't head-rests either, they are rear impact restraint devices.
I am happy this mod is working for you & your son but for this 6'4" driver, I'll pass. (nice write-up tho)
1. It gives me better control of vehicle & better viewing
2. I learned years ago in road racing vintage scca to sit close & upright
3. feels better on my sore lower back
my head "doesn't hit the sport bar", I have no idea how it would either?
The headrests aren't head-rests either, they are rear impact restraint devices.
I am happy this mod is working for you & your son but for this 6'4" driver, I'll pass. (nice write-up tho)
Last edited by RescueGreen#3; Feb 14, 2011 at 11:43 AM.
JK Newbie
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque, NM
The things are extremely dangerous as they are, due to 1. the rear view mirror obscuring cross traffic at intersections and 2. very good chances for me to crack my skull when rear-ended. It has nothing to do with ride comfort! I would be safer if I made the new rails from toilet paper! Jeez!
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
From: Leesburg, VA
After researching here on JK-Forum and talking with a few vendors, I dropped my Jeep off at my local speed shop (one who I've had a long experience with). Dan and his team at Mach V Motorsports spent the day today fixing the issue. Bottom line....this is a custom job, not easy to fix with fab'ing some new brackets to sell over the counter (that might have worked ok on the older models...not sure). There's a welded-in riser at the front right that had to be cut out and some new metal tacked in place, to allow all four corners to drop the 2" max that's available.
So...bottom line is that at least on the 2012+, there's no simple fix (but it IS fixable). Full function up/down/back/forth is still available, just now two inches lower. I can snap a pic of the finished product tomorrow but the seat angle adjuster is basically flush to the the bulge in the B pillar where the seatbelt retractor lives.
A two inch is exactly what I needed for my Jeep. I'm 6'1" and it now feels perfect (and has the added benefit of keeping a "stock" like entrance height when I add the 2.5" AEV kit).
So...bottom line is that at least on the 2012+, there's no simple fix (but it IS fixable). Full function up/down/back/forth is still available, just now two inches lower. I can snap a pic of the finished product tomorrow but the seat angle adjuster is basically flush to the the bulge in the B pillar where the seatbelt retractor lives.
A two inch is exactly what I needed for my Jeep. I'm 6'1" and it now feels perfect (and has the added benefit of keeping a "stock" like entrance height when I add the 2.5" AEV kit).
JK Newbie
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
From: Moreno Valley, CA
After researching here on JK-Forum and talking with a few vendors, I dropped my Jeep off at my local speed shop (one who I've had a long experience with). Dan and his team at Mach V Motorsports spent the day today fixing the issue. Bottom line....this is a custom job, not easy to fix with fab'ing some new brackets to sell over the counter (that might have worked ok on the older models...not sure). There's a welded-in riser at the front right that had to be cut out and some new metal tacked in place, to allow all four corners to drop the 2" max that's available.
So...bottom line is that at least on the 2012+, there's no simple fix (but it IS fixable). Full function up/down/back/forth is still available, just now two inches lower. I can snap a pic of the finished product tomorrow but the seat angle adjuster is basically flush to the the bulge in the B pillar where the seatbelt retractor lives.
A two inch is exactly what I needed for my Jeep. I'm 6'1" and it now feels perfect (and has the added benefit of keeping a "stock" like entrance height when I add the 2.5" AEV kit).
So...bottom line is that at least on the 2012+, there's no simple fix (but it IS fixable). Full function up/down/back/forth is still available, just now two inches lower. I can snap a pic of the finished product tomorrow but the seat angle adjuster is basically flush to the the bulge in the B pillar where the seatbelt retractor lives.
A two inch is exactly what I needed for my Jeep. I'm 6'1" and it now feels perfect (and has the added benefit of keeping a "stock" like entrance height when I add the 2.5" AEV kit).
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
From: Jenison, MI
I can not stress enough on how dangerous this can be.
Yes I understand that for you tall people it's unsafe for you to sit this high. But I have been designing automotive seating for the past 12 years.
There is so much that goes into each piece of that seat it would make your head spin.
You think you know a thing or two about steel. You have no idea. Can you tell me the difference between a HLS-1010 and a docal-520?
More than likely those stock seat risers are made from the 520. I have done a few of them and they have been the last 5 years or so.
I guess you will only know if you get in a wreck. To bad it's to late at that point.
Yes I understand that for you tall people it's unsafe for you to sit this high. But I have been designing automotive seating for the past 12 years.
There is so much that goes into each piece of that seat it would make your head spin.
You think you know a thing or two about steel. You have no idea. Can you tell me the difference between a HLS-1010 and a docal-520?
More than likely those stock seat risers are made from the 520. I have done a few of them and they have been the last 5 years or so.
I guess you will only know if you get in a wreck. To bad it's to late at that point.
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
From: Leesburg, VA
Death by rollbar impact to the head, door panels 1" from your torso or some fab'ed seat rails.....pick your poison. The Wrangler is no Mercedes in the safety department; we're all adults here and risk mitigation is the name of the game. Chances are 1000x greater I'd be injured by the roll bar than any lack of deformation from using stronger steel in the seat brackets.
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
From: Jenison, MI
But you're right, in a roll over you are more likely to die by hitting your head when sitting up so high.
Now if the home made seat risers fail in a crash that is not a roll over you could die because of that. Or they could fail in a roll over and you die because the seat just came unattached and you were ejected.
Roll the dice I guess.