Best supercharger for the money... ripp? 505? Sprintex? other?????
01-19-2012, 04:43 AM
#21
JK Freak
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cabot, AR
Posts: 676
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First, HP doesnt mean shit. Really it is just a pretty number people like to throw around. Torque is all that really matters. There is a big difference in the way the Avenger and Ripp develop their power.
Both Ripp and 505 use centrifugal superchargers that develop boost by imparting motion into the air. When the air meets a resistance to this motion, the slowing of the air turns the kinetic energy into pressure energy. For that reason, the boost and airflow through a turbine supercharger are very much interdependent on the characteristics of the engine it is feeding. But there is a downside: its speed sensitivity. As the turbine spins, the boost goes up with the square of the rpm. This means at low speed minimal boost, and at high speed possibly too much boost. So this style develops almost no power low end but quite a bit in the high RPM range. This is the ideal choice for high speed cars (I have had a Vortech blower and Procharger on past cars). But this is almost pointless for Jeeps.
The Avenger is a roots style supercharger, also known as a positive displacement supercharger. Really nothing more than an air pump driven directly from the crank, injecting air it has NOT compressed. It delivers linearly increasing boost as rpm increases. The big difference is that positive displacement superchargers pump a fixed amount of air for every revolution of the internal lobes. This means they are developing power even when a vehical is at idle. Positive displacement blowers are the ideal choice for low end torque. But they are very limited in the high end, which is why alot of high performance cars do not like this style.
Also almost all car companies use roots style blowers as a factory blower. Becasuse more power developed lower in the band causes less strain on the engine. So a motor will have a much longer life with the Avenger kit vs the Ripp kit. Also there is no risk of boost creep, that can easily destroy an engine.
Ideally the best for the JK would be a twin screw supercharger. They will develop full boost by 2000 RPM and maintian it constant through the whole RPM range. But they are more expensive and no companies have released any yet. I did have a twin screw blower on one of my cars and can attest to how amazing they are.
Both Ripp and 505 use centrifugal superchargers that develop boost by imparting motion into the air. When the air meets a resistance to this motion, the slowing of the air turns the kinetic energy into pressure energy. For that reason, the boost and airflow through a turbine supercharger are very much interdependent on the characteristics of the engine it is feeding. But there is a downside: its speed sensitivity. As the turbine spins, the boost goes up with the square of the rpm. This means at low speed minimal boost, and at high speed possibly too much boost. So this style develops almost no power low end but quite a bit in the high RPM range. This is the ideal choice for high speed cars (I have had a Vortech blower and Procharger on past cars). But this is almost pointless for Jeeps.
The Avenger is a roots style supercharger, also known as a positive displacement supercharger. Really nothing more than an air pump driven directly from the crank, injecting air it has NOT compressed. It delivers linearly increasing boost as rpm increases. The big difference is that positive displacement superchargers pump a fixed amount of air for every revolution of the internal lobes. This means they are developing power even when a vehical is at idle. Positive displacement blowers are the ideal choice for low end torque. But they are very limited in the high end, which is why alot of high performance cars do not like this style.
Also almost all car companies use roots style blowers as a factory blower. Becasuse more power developed lower in the band causes less strain on the engine. So a motor will have a much longer life with the Avenger kit vs the Ripp kit. Also there is no risk of boost creep, that can easily destroy an engine.
Ideally the best for the JK would be a twin screw supercharger. They will develop full boost by 2000 RPM and maintian it constant through the whole RPM range. But they are more expensive and no companies have released any yet. I did have a twin screw blower on one of my cars and can attest to how amazing they are.
And if it is not much more difficult, I am curious why more people aren't buying these and you do not hear much about them? This seems like a system that guys crawling rocks at low rpms would want to use.
01-19-2012, 05:13 AM
#22
JK Enthusiast
It is all about advertisement. Ripp is bigger and advertises more...also having a presense on the forums helps quite a bit too. Avenger has been in the game awhile though and claim to have sold over 100 kits. So they are out there. Most of the crazy rock crawlers dont bother with FI at all and go straight to HEMI swaps.
Installing a roots blower is very simple. I installed a roots blower myself on my G35 and it took me about 6 hrs with just basic tools in my driveway. They actually have their install instructions online too. http://www.avengersuperchargers.com/...ns_F_email.pdf But it would be an easier install than you already did with the Ripp.
Installing a roots blower is very simple. I installed a roots blower myself on my G35 and it took me about 6 hrs with just basic tools in my driveway. They actually have their install instructions online too. http://www.avengersuperchargers.com/...ns_F_email.pdf But it would be an easier install than you already did with the Ripp.
Last edited by WhosUrBuddiee; 01-19-2012 at 05:24 AM.
01-19-2012, 08:26 AM
#23
JK Super Freak
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,012
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is all about advertisement. Ripp is bigger and advertises more...also having a presense on the forums helps quite a bit too. Avenger has been in the game awhile though and claim to have sold over 100 kits. So they are out there. Most of the crazy rock crawlers dont bother with FI at all and go straight to HEMI swaps.
Installing a roots blower is very simple. I installed a roots blower myself on my G35 and it took me about 6 hrs with just basic tools in my driveway. They actually have their install instructions online too. http://www.avengersuperchargers.com/...ns_F_email.pdf But it would be an easier install than you already did with the Ripp.
Installing a roots blower is very simple. I installed a roots blower myself on my G35 and it took me about 6 hrs with just basic tools in my driveway. They actually have their install instructions online too. http://www.avengersuperchargers.com/...ns_F_email.pdf But it would be an easier install than you already did with the Ripp.
01-19-2012, 09:14 AM
#24
JK Enthusiast
Water to air intercoolers work in a similar manner excep the hot intake air passes through a chamber filled with cool circulating liquid (usually a water/glycol mixture). This drops the temperature of the air entering the engine considerably more. The colder the air, the more dense it is, which means more can be forced into the engine, giving you more power.
Also it goes back to speed. Traditional air to air only work if you are traveling at higher rates of speed. For any type of crawling or off roading, they are pretty much useless. Where a air to water intercooler work even at very low rates of speed.
01-19-2012, 09:27 AM
#25
JK Enthusiast
Also compressing air takes energy which imparts heat into the air. To compress 1 lb of air by 8 psi would add 71 degrees of heat into that air. Then you also have engine compartment soak heat added, as well as heat added from the compressor itself. On average it works out to be about 150-200 degreess of heat added above ambient temperature, which is why intercoolers are required. This mean if it is 100 degrees outsite, the air going into your engine could be 250-300 degrees. The excessive heat, if not removed, can causes detonation in an engine. Detonation occurs when the gas ignites prior to the spark. It can also be caused by impropper timing or improper a/f ratios.
Many people do not like air/water intercoolers because it requires adding an additional pump to the system and tank for the water/glycol storage. Added parts to anythign mean more stuff that can go wrong. Air/air requires no mechanical means to operate and have nothing that can go wrong. It is always the ideal choice for most cars. But for low speed applications like crawling, will do almost nothing. If you do mainly all highway driving, then air/air is the cheaper and better choice.
My last car I built had an air/water and difference was very noticable in engine temps. This was the Stillen supercharger I had on my G37 (it was a centrifigual blower like Ripp). It had an air/water intercooler built into the intake manifold.
Many people do not like air/water intercoolers because it requires adding an additional pump to the system and tank for the water/glycol storage. Added parts to anythign mean more stuff that can go wrong. Air/air requires no mechanical means to operate and have nothing that can go wrong. It is always the ideal choice for most cars. But for low speed applications like crawling, will do almost nothing. If you do mainly all highway driving, then air/air is the cheaper and better choice.
My last car I built had an air/water and difference was very noticable in engine temps. This was the Stillen supercharger I had on my G37 (it was a centrifigual blower like Ripp). It had an air/water intercooler built into the intake manifold.
Last edited by WhosUrBuddiee; 01-19-2012 at 09:35 AM.
01-19-2012, 08:53 PM
#26
JK Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lancaster, Ca.
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow..... a lot of good input.... thank you...
im sure this goes without saying.... but any and all of these void our warranty, correct???
if so that gives the ripp and 505 a up.....
but it seems as though the roots are the best for our application....
i am very interested in the Sprintex also if it does not pop up out of the hood.... but again...do like the scoop
im sure this goes without saying.... but any and all of these void our warranty, correct???
if so that gives the ripp and 505 a up.....
but it seems as though the roots are the best for our application....
i am very interested in the Sprintex also if it does not pop up out of the hood.... but again...do like the scoop
01-19-2012, 08:57 PM
#27
JK Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lancaster, Ca.
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow..... a lot of good input.... thank you...
im sure this goes without saying.... but any and all of these void our warranty, correct???
if so that gives the ripp and 505 a up.....
but it seems as though the roots are the best for our application....
i am very interested in the Sprintex also if it does not pop up out of the hood.... but again...do like the scoop
im sure this goes without saying.... but any and all of these void our warranty, correct???
if so that gives the ripp and 505 a up.....
but it seems as though the roots are the best for our application....
i am very interested in the Sprintex also if it does not pop up out of the hood.... but again...do like the scoop
btw.....HP=TQ*RPM/5252........ that said hp is gained through higher rpm's..... and we do want the low rpm tq...
01-20-2012, 04:39 AM
#28
JK Enthusiast
Wow..... a lot of good input.... thank you...
im sure this goes without saying.... but any and all of these void our warranty, correct???
if so that gives the ripp and 505 a up.....
but it seems as though the roots are the best for our application....
i am very interested in the Sprintex also if it does not pop up out of the hood.... but again...do like the scoop
im sure this goes without saying.... but any and all of these void our warranty, correct???
if so that gives the ripp and 505 a up.....
but it seems as though the roots are the best for our application....
i am very interested in the Sprintex also if it does not pop up out of the hood.... but again...do like the scoop
Pretty much anything you ever do will void your warranty. Even getting MOPAR equipment installed by the dealer can void it. It really all depends on the dealer you go to and how modification friendly they are. I have built 12 high hp cars and it has always been a crapshoot with the dealers on which ones will help me and which ones will not. But thankfully most kits can be uninstalled in about 6 hours if you need to take it back to stock and take it to the dealer.
Both RIPP and Avenger both have 1 year limited warranties. Really for a Jeep a roots style blower is definatly the best choice. I would only ever install a RIPP if it will be a pavement princess. They will help you very little off road.
Has Sprintex ever released the JK supercharger? I know they had a prototype at SEMA but I havent heard of a full release. The Sprintex uses a twin screw, so you will have 100% boost by 2000 RPM. The Sprintex would be by far the best blower for a JK. It will be the best low end torque, the easiest install, the safest for a stock engine, and the cheapest. (Sprintex said at SEMA their kit will cost under 4k). But I have no idea when they will ever come out. Also Sprintex claims their new JK kit can be installed by one person in about 4 hours.
The Avenger would be my second choice. It is also slightly cheaper than Ripp. And Ripp would be my last choice. I really feel you are paying more for the name than the blower.
01-20-2012, 04:47 AM
#29
JK Enthusiast
Here is a picture of the Sprintex. It is a very compact easy install and does not require cutting the hood like the Avenger (though I love the look of it). But I have not ever heard of a release date for it.
01-20-2012, 06:41 AM
#30
JK Freak
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cabot, AR
Posts: 676
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I read somewhere that the company is from Australia and because the emission standards are different down there the flash won't work on jeeps made for the USA . They mentioned being told that they are workin on it and should be ready for sales in the USA this spring. That was a post from someone who saw it at SEMA and spoke with the Reps.