So check this out Borla just released their headers for the Jk

http://www.borla.com/products/product_detail.aspx?prod_sku=17251

I think they look amazing. Labeled as Off Road/Racing use only. Borla priced at $1099.99. To much for a 3.8 exhaust mod? Any thoughts?

 

prolly labeled offroad/race since there are no cats shown where i believe they are in the factory location. are they tuned? even if it still sounds like a lot to me

 

Here is a link to the install instructions, shows a little more detail...

http://www.borla.com/media/installations/17251.pdf

 

Mebbe Obama will cough up a short stimulus pkg for this?

 

Interesting. For that price, wonder what the gains are?

 

Got that one backwards. Long tubes make power at lower rpm levels and shorter tubes at higher rpm levels. However most aftermarket manufacturers will use a wider primary tube than effective for low end power, somewhat spreading the rpm level and peak efficiencies. The best design for the varied use most of us have for our jeeps is a set of headers with primary tubes of unequal lengths that perform best over a varied rpm range.

As for the Borla and the replacement of the Y-Pipe that is something I would have craved when I was first looking for headers. The omission of catalytic converters however is troubling for on road use and then getting the PCM to figure out your improvement in efficiencies will be extra troubling. I've had more than my share of troubles trying to beat the PCM with my installed headers, and I'm sure buying an aftermarket cat would compound those.

My guess on really getting these to perform effectively would be to also purchase some sort of wide band O2 sensor kit that will relay narrow band O2 data to the PCM and provide a level of A/F mixture control. Perhaps a programmer like the Superchips Flashpaq when available could make it work, but certainly not the Hypertech (unless your willing to pay them for a custom tune, their words, not mine).

So if this is a route you plan to run, be prepared to throw some DTCs and likely run lean while trying to figure it out. It definitely won't be plug and play and I'd keep an extra $1500 on ice to make it work.

 

Actually, it's just the opposite with long tubes. Their continued scavenging effect, long tube headers pick up more bottom and mid range torque and horsepower. From the Borla instructions, it does indeed look as if the header system does include removing the stock cats. I believe even if the stock Y pipe was retained with cats that these headers would add more power than any short header on the market. The questions would be, would you be able to feel the difference, and would that difference be worth the cost? Surely, the Borla Y pipe must be an improvement over stock. There's no law against repacing stock cats with high flow cats. Certainly you could add them to the Borla Y pipe, and they would be close enough to the stock location to pass inspection.

 

In practice and because of the PCM, headers provide only a very moderate performance gain. In theory they should do much better but the PCM just doesn't have a roadmap to get there. If you could get to 12.5:1 A/F ratio when the rpms are higher or the throttle position is greater than 50%, they would certainly have benefits, but you would be hard pressed to do that with the narrow band O2 sensor and the PCM.

If Diablosport entered the platform with a customizable tuner I think you would have a pretty good shot at making this work. You would still probably need a wide band O2 kit and at the end of the day you still have a mini van motor.

 

If I have any time today I'll try to get in touch with Borla to see if they have any numbers or additional information on the product.

 

Emailed Borla and they said its off road only because of the absence of cats, it comes with O2 sensor bungs, and you should expect a 5% gain in HP and Torque