JBA headers
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2009
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From: DUBAI
JK Junkie
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,017
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From: Lakewood, OH
That's the point. Stack it all up with what we have out there for a N/A JK. Intake, larger bore throttle body, long tube headers, after market exhaust/can, mill .025" off the heads and at the end of the day a tuner is going to provide 60-70% of the gains. Add up the cost/value of everything and it's pretty clear, buy a programmer or tuner. I certainly understand that the gains are not exclusive, but the reality is pretty clear that the bulk of the increase comes from tuning.
JK Enthusiast
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 279
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From: Livermore, CA
That's the point. Stack it all up with what we have out there for a N/A JK. Intake, larger bore throttle body, long tube headers, after market exhaust/can, mill .025" off the heads and at the end of the day a tuner is going to provide 60-70% of the gains. Add up the cost/value of everything and it's pretty clear, buy a programmer or tuner. I certainly understand that the gains are not exclusive, but the reality is pretty clear that the bulk of the increase comes from tuning.
JPop, why exactly do you question the dyno results? Is it that you just don't believe the numbers, or is there a technical reason you question them? Based on all your posts, it looks like you are an automotive engineer/technician with many years of experience working with these Jeeps and other vehicles.
I am not an automotive technician and do not claim to be. But I can tell you that I definitely felt a big difference at every stage of the install. They installed the headers first and no tune, because they hadn't yet worked out the tune, so I drove it a couple of months with just the headers installed, and I could absolutely tell a difference. Then, when they had a tune, I gave my Jeep to them for the tune and when I got it back, I again felt a big difference. Even though I'm not an automotive engineer, I am a degreed engineer and know something about horsepower, torque and weight and with 35" tires, a 5000 lb vehicle is going to have to have a rather significant HP and torque increase for you to feel it as I have.
JK Junkie
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,017
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From: Lakewood, OH
Dyno numbers don't always tell the whole story. They are misleading when you make multiple changes and only attribute gains to one item. If I dropped a hemi in my JK and put chrome wheels on it and I attributed the gains to the wheels it isn't exactly truthful. Sure it cranked more power and it didn't before the wheels were on but I can't dismiss the hemi under the hood.
While the long tube headers and tune aren't exactly the same, but we're left with a mess to discern where the gains were actually coming from. 50hp gains are outlandish to attribute to a set of headers alone, but if you have the whole laundry list it begins to piece together the puzzle.
I am not an engineer nor anyone that works in the automotive industry. I just have a lot of years drag racing and understand how difficult it is to gain power. PCM tuning and programming is the most cost effective way to gain power, and real world gains by anything else is exponentially more expensive. That's not to say it isn't worth it, just that I have a real issue with how some of this stuff is represented.
While the long tube headers and tune aren't exactly the same, but we're left with a mess to discern where the gains were actually coming from. 50hp gains are outlandish to attribute to a set of headers alone, but if you have the whole laundry list it begins to piece together the puzzle.
I am not an engineer nor anyone that works in the automotive industry. I just have a lot of years drag racing and understand how difficult it is to gain power. PCM tuning and programming is the most cost effective way to gain power, and real world gains by anything else is exponentially more expensive. That's not to say it isn't worth it, just that I have a real issue with how some of this stuff is represented.
JK Enthusiast
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 279
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From: Livermore, CA
Fair enough.
I looked back at my earlier post and it does look as if I were trying to say the headers alone got me the gains. I apologize if this misled anyone, that is not what I was trying to say. I got a 14 HP gain from the headers and with the RIPP custom tune, got another 32 HP (which when calculated out is 69% from the tune, matches your earlier post).
I looked back at my earlier post and it does look as if I were trying to say the headers alone got me the gains. I apologize if this misled anyone, that is not what I was trying to say. I got a 14 HP gain from the headers and with the RIPP custom tune, got another 32 HP (which when calculated out is 69% from the tune, matches your earlier post).
JK Enthusiast
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 279
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From: Livermore, CA
JK Junkie
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,017
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From: Lakewood, OH
14hp is nothing to sneeze at and even if that's a little steep, it's still going to be a substantial increase. That's how it should be posed to the market and made totally clear that with a custom tune and Diablo they can get much bigger gains.
Sponsoring Manufacturer
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,189
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From: New York
I'm sorry. I'm all for more power 
but we need to be honest here. 50 more HP is what, like a 35% gain out of the engine? That's pretty much impossible with just headers. I wish it were true, believe me, but those numbers are just unrealistic. Even with their dyno results, every dyno is different and gives different numbers. A guy in my Ducati forum saw a 30 HP increase just by changing shops.
but we need to be honest here. 50 more HP is what, like a 35% gain out of the engine? That's pretty much impossible with just headers. I wish it were true, believe me, but those numbers are just unrealistic. Even with their dyno results, every dyno is different and gives different numbers. A guy in my Ducati forum saw a 30 HP increase just by changing shops.And so we are clear - its Headers, exhaust CAI And a proper tune that made the HP -
Sponsoring Manufacturer
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,189
Likes: 2
From: New York
I am not an engineer nor anyone that works in the automotive industry. I just have a lot of years drag racing and understand how difficult it is to gain power. PCM tuning and programming is the most cost effective way to gain power, and real world gains by anything else is exponentially more expensive. That's not to say it isn't worth it, just that I have a real issue with how some of this stuff is represented.
So what your saying is your HP is here:
and ours is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC5cBPm3bNw