Yeah I have a sport x right now with 3.73's, I'm for sure getting a rubicon 4dr, I want all the power I can get! Haha I'm starting to lean further toward the auto. I have been reading about it and it is so much nicer than the 4speed. It was in 1995 Mercedes and I have read numerous threads of it working great with v8's to, which would be very nice.

 

Was there not enough power in the v8?

 

You mean the v6? In the case of the chevy's, nah....there really wasn't. Not when there was an option for a 5.3 v8....

 

So if I follow this chart, my auto 2012 Sahara with 3.21 with stock tires 255/70R18 is suppose to be "Minimum allowable gear set for tire size, sluggish performance, minimal OD us, mild trail use at low elevation"

So if this affirmation is true, I think Jeep should FIRE a few of their engineer.

Otherwise, this chart is BS.

 

The Chart is True - at altitude, and up hills, you will need to downshift quite a bit with 3.21's and stock tires.

3.21 gears are not meant for performance, but for gas mileage. There are alot of consumers out there buying Jeeps with 3.21's because they do not plan on putting on 33's or 35's, or even pushing the limits of the vehicle.

 

So just the fact of no stick killed it for you?

 

X2 the 3.21's are crap if you wanna go offroad, well - bigger tires and offroad

 

I believe the stall speed of the new converter negates the differences between first gears of the new automatic and the manual transmission. The new automatic is said to have a fairly high brake/flash stall speed to make up for the deficiencies in low end torque. My guess is it's about a wash with the manual transmission when you actually look at how many rpms you are cranking before power actually hits the wheels.

I am totally a manual transmission guy for pleasure driving. I haven't had many automatic transmissions in my life and if I can twist the data enough I'll generally convince myself that a manual transmission is the way to fly. This time I'm not so sure and there aren't the glaring differences in transmissions there were with previous JKs. Basically the same cruise rpms, roll out power is going to be close based on converter slip and stall speed, then of course the advantages off road.

 

Yeah, i mean...it didn't kill me. Its really convenient to have an automatic. But every time you see a vehicle with a stick you're going to wish you had one too. At least I did!

 

I test drove a 2011 auto, a 2010 stick, a 2012 auto, and a 2012 stick all back to back before I ordered my 2012 stick - all 3.73's. I can say that you are definitely right about the stall speed - when I gas'd the autos from idle, the power hits about 3 times faster in the 2012 auto. The 2012 stick literally feels like it has tractor torque in 1st gear compared to first in the 2011 auto, and it still had some get up and go. The difference between the 2012 auto and manual was MUCH LESS dramatic, but it was still there. If I had not been trying them out right next to each other, I can honestly say I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference, on flat ground anyways.

To the OP, man...get what you want. I never do any super difficult off-road stuff anyways, so the advantage an auto has in that sense is negligible to me. Just make sure you get what you want, and do like I did and test drive some Jeeps. If you do go with a stick, the $1000 you save will get you a premium front bumper and a nice bottle of whiskey to celebrate. If you go with an automatic, you can always shift the gears manually on the 2012 auto, so just kick your left leg around and pretend to be pushin that clutch!

JPop - you're awesome man...sometimes I click on your profile and look at your latest posts just to learn something!