JK Pentastar Swap
Former Vendor
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: CA
I am new to the group, but I am almost finished with swapping out my 187,000 mile 3.8l engine in my 2008 JKU with a 2013 3.6l pentastar and I thought others may like to hear about the experience. Originally I wanted to buy a new JKU, but the dealers in my area wanted $2k over MSRP, so I said no thank you. I decided to buy a very good condition high mileage 2008 Sahara and do a hemi swap, since many Hemi kits were advertised as "complete" for ~$5k. Only after I did some more investigation did I find out that "complete" means no engine, no transmission, and missing about $5k in parts you need to buy from the dealership. As I began to consider other options I could afford, I evaluated VW TDI engine swap (cody), LS engine swap (many kits), Hemi swap, but no one had done a pentastar swap... I called several dealers and expert engine swappers (AEV, Novak, Motech, JSS, and many others), and they all told me it was almost impossible, stupid, and even if I could get it to work I would have endless problems such as emissions and communication issues. Being a mechanical engineer, and a bit bull headed, I decided to throw down the gauntlet and see if I could get it to fit (mechanically and budget-wise).
Thread Starter
JK Newbie
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 53
Likes: 8
From: Fairfax, VA
Invest2m4 Thanks for the gas tank advice... I figured out how to install the newer EVAP canister. Basically the '11 and earlier already had the rollover tube T-eed into the vent line. I cut that, and ran the hoses from the new EVAP to the old lines.... but turns out I didnt need to waste the time or money, and I should have stuck with the '08 EVAP canister. After I did the mod, I read up more on the design of the Chrysler emission systems.. changing out the canister was un-needed totally. Changing that stuff out still gave me a p0441 code. So that was $200 wasted.
Now I am left with some vague Mode 6 data on the failure code. The mode 6 error is showing the purge flow monitor is failing with "Non-Intrusive Side 1". Not sure what this means. My thoughts are that the tubes going to the vacuum sensor could be blocked, or perhaps my vapor sensor was bad (I bought it on ebay and it seemed sketchy). Other than this, perhaps I messed up my wiring to the vapor sensor (shouldnt have.. but who knows).
So I will concede defeat on the one piece of advice I got before I started the project "Even if you get it to work you will have endless emissions errors to track down". I will keep you guys posted. Hopefully in the process of cutting my teeth on this project, others can learn from my mistakes.
The picture shows the "T" fitting before I installed the new evap canister. I cut that hose and installed fuel line from that to the small port on the new evap canister... oh well!
Now I am left with some vague Mode 6 data on the failure code. The mode 6 error is showing the purge flow monitor is failing with "Non-Intrusive Side 1". Not sure what this means. My thoughts are that the tubes going to the vacuum sensor could be blocked, or perhaps my vapor sensor was bad (I bought it on ebay and it seemed sketchy). Other than this, perhaps I messed up my wiring to the vapor sensor (shouldnt have.. but who knows).
So I will concede defeat on the one piece of advice I got before I started the project "Even if you get it to work you will have endless emissions errors to track down". I will keep you guys posted. Hopefully in the process of cutting my teeth on this project, others can learn from my mistakes.
JK Freak
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 896
Likes: 5
From: Ventura, CA
I updated the list in the previous post to justthe parts needed for the swap (including tools I didnt have like hoist and tranny jack, and some wrenches). Subtract tools and it is about $400-$500 cheaper.
For the small line coming from the fuel tank, I know where it hooks into the EVAP, but where does it hook into the fuel tank? Is it up front? Do you have a picture?
The sensor you refer to is the fuel pressure sensor. I had to wire one in ('08 did not have it, but '13 requires one or an emissions code gets tossed), and splice it into the fuel filler vent line: picture later.
For the small line coming from the fuel tank, I know where it hooks into the EVAP, but where does it hook into the fuel tank? Is it up front? Do you have a picture?
The sensor you refer to is the fuel pressure sensor. I had to wire one in ('08 did not have it, but '13 requires one or an emissions code gets tossed), and splice it into the fuel filler vent line: picture later.
JK Junkie
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,697
Likes: 2
From: Grosse Pointe, MI
The OP here did the work himself. You don't need a $5k kit to install a hemi.
Thread Starter
JK Newbie
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 53
Likes: 8
From: Fairfax, VA
If you dont wanna deal with wiring, you are going to have to buy a hemi kit. So, lets just think this hemi thing through a bit more. What do you need to make it work? Firstly, you need an engine and a transmission. Then, you need new front and rear engine mounts (cutting, welding, priming, and painting), after that you need a new coolant system, new AC plumbing, new PCM, new wiring, new suspension (hemi weighs more), new power steering setup, new rear drive axle (shorter distance from the diff to the transfer with a hemi on some of the installs), and a host of other details I didnt mention.
So what the difference between my install and a hemi?
I didnt have to cut and weld, I got to keep a manual tranny, and I didnt get tech support with a phone call. Doing things myself means I saved the hemi kit money.. thats about the only real cost difference ($4k-$6k depending).
I feel like a cheap hemi for most people would still be twice the price.
All this being said, I think a hemi or an LS with a Tranzilla T56 magnum transmission would be awesome as well! I just wanted to be a little different and try something that has never been done (to my knowledge). I also would almost rather the 3.6 pentastar with a super charger over a hemi... better than a hemi in some ways (lighter curb weight, similar power output). But lets not argue over semantics... Soup for some, sandwiches for others.
Oh, and I may have figured out my emissions problems. After driving 50 miles with a new vapor sensor the CEL went off, and I checked the codes and they had been cleared. SO I may have spent 2 months debugging nothing more than a dude ripping me off on ebay. Bummer
So what the difference between my install and a hemi?
I didnt have to cut and weld, I got to keep a manual tranny, and I didnt get tech support with a phone call. Doing things myself means I saved the hemi kit money.. thats about the only real cost difference ($4k-$6k depending).
I feel like a cheap hemi for most people would still be twice the price.
All this being said, I think a hemi or an LS with a Tranzilla T56 magnum transmission would be awesome as well! I just wanted to be a little different and try something that has never been done (to my knowledge). I also would almost rather the 3.6 pentastar with a super charger over a hemi... better than a hemi in some ways (lighter curb weight, similar power output). But lets not argue over semantics... Soup for some, sandwiches for others.
Oh, and I may have figured out my emissions problems. After driving 50 miles with a new vapor sensor the CEL went off, and I checked the codes and they had been cleared. SO I may have spent 2 months debugging nothing more than a dude ripping me off on ebay. Bummer
JK Junkie
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,697
Likes: 2
From: Grosse Pointe, MI
If you dont wanna deal with wiring, you are going to have to buy a hemi kit. So, lets just think this hemi thing through a bit more. What do you need to make it work? Firstly, you need an engine and a transmission. Then, you need new front and rear engine mounts (cutting, welding, priming, and painting), after that you need a new coolant system, new AC plumbing, new PCM, new wiring, new suspension (hemi weighs more), new power steering setup, new rear drive axle (shorter distance from the diff to the transfer with a hemi on some of the installs), and a host of other details I didnt mention.
So what the difference between my install and a hemi?
I didnt have to cut and weld, I got to keep a manual tranny, and I didnt get tech support with a phone call. Doing things myself means I saved the hemi kit money.. thats about the only real cost difference ($4k-$6k depending).
I feel like a cheap hemi for most people would still be twice the price.
All this being said, I think a hemi or an LS with a Tranzilla T56 magnum transmission would be awesome as well! I just wanted to be a little different and try something that has never been done (to my knowledge). I also would almost rather the 3.6 pentastar with a super charger over a hemi... better than a hemi in some ways (lighter curb weight, similar power output). But lets not argue over semantics... Soup for some, sandwiches for others.
Oh, and I may have figured out my emissions problems. After driving 50 miles with a new vapor sensor the CEL went off, and I checked the codes and they had been cleared. SO I may have spent 2 months debugging nothing more than a dude ripping me off on ebay. Bummer
So what the difference between my install and a hemi?
I didnt have to cut and weld, I got to keep a manual tranny, and I didnt get tech support with a phone call. Doing things myself means I saved the hemi kit money.. thats about the only real cost difference ($4k-$6k depending).
I feel like a cheap hemi for most people would still be twice the price.
All this being said, I think a hemi or an LS with a Tranzilla T56 magnum transmission would be awesome as well! I just wanted to be a little different and try something that has never been done (to my knowledge). I also would almost rather the 3.6 pentastar with a super charger over a hemi... better than a hemi in some ways (lighter curb weight, similar power output). But lets not argue over semantics... Soup for some, sandwiches for others.
Oh, and I may have figured out my emissions problems. After driving 50 miles with a new vapor sensor the CEL went off, and I checked the codes and they had been cleared. SO I may have spent 2 months debugging nothing more than a dude ripping me off on ebay. Bummer
I have a manual trans, so will use the Getrag 238, which is a direct swap. Hemi weighs a little more, but I can either offset the weight up front, or add a little nitrogen to the ORIs. As for the longer driveline, I have a good 2" left that I can stretch the rear. However, most driveshafts have room to run short enough.
It really isn't all that complicated. In fact, other than some fabrication, it is plug and play and everything works. I'd be willing to bet I could do the swap, including fabrication, in less time than you have into a 3.6 swap and definitely with less money invested. That includes the countless hours you spent researching and problem solving. You didn't have a kit handed to you, so saying you'd need to drop $5k on a swap kit isn't really a fair comparison. As mentioned, you buy the wiring, computer, and motor mounts. The rest is a matter of basic fabrication.
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 287
Likes: 3
From: Littleton, Colorado
JSS sells the wiring and computer for around $1500. Uses the stock Hemi ECU. Engine mounts are around $300. $600 for radiator and fan. That is $2400. I'd make my owns mounts for the other stuff. I added $600 for misc. A/C plumbing can be done locally for nearly nothing. Already running hydro assist, I'd just need the different PSC mount that is for the Hemi. Yes, there is cutting and welding, but that is basic stuff that takes a couple hours. Well worth it if you already have the engine out.
I have a manual trans, so will use the Getrag 238, which is a direct swap. Hemi weighs a little more, but I can either offset the weight up front, or add a little nitrogen to the ORIs. As for the longer driveline, I have a good 2" left that I can stretch the rear. However, most driveshafts have room to run short enough.
It really isn't all that complicated. In fact, other than some fabrication, it is plug and play and everything works. I'd be willing to bet I could do the swap, including fabrication, in less time than you have into a 3.6 swap and definitely with less money invested. That includes the countless hours you spent researching and problem solving. You didn't have a kit handed to you, so saying you'd need to drop $5k on a swap kit isn't really a fair comparison. As mentioned, you buy the wiring, computer, and motor mounts. The rest is a matter of basic fabrication.
I have a manual trans, so will use the Getrag 238, which is a direct swap. Hemi weighs a little more, but I can either offset the weight up front, or add a little nitrogen to the ORIs. As for the longer driveline, I have a good 2" left that I can stretch the rear. However, most driveshafts have room to run short enough.
It really isn't all that complicated. In fact, other than some fabrication, it is plug and play and everything works. I'd be willing to bet I could do the swap, including fabrication, in less time than you have into a 3.6 swap and definitely with less money invested. That includes the countless hours you spent researching and problem solving. You didn't have a kit handed to you, so saying you'd need to drop $5k on a swap kit isn't really a fair comparison. As mentioned, you buy the wiring, computer, and motor mounts. The rest is a matter of basic fabrication.
Thread Starter
JK Newbie
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 53
Likes: 8
From: Fairfax, VA
JSS sells the wiring and computer for around $1500. Uses the stock Hemi ECU. Engine mounts are around $300. $600 for radiator and fan. That is $2400. I'd make my owns mounts for the other stuff. I added $600 for misc. A/C plumbing can be done locally for nearly nothing. Already running hydro assist, I'd just need the different PSC mount that is for the Hemi. Yes, there is cutting and welding, but that is basic stuff that takes a couple hours. Well worth it if you already have the engine out.
I have a manual trans, so will use the Getrag 238, which is a direct swap. Hemi weighs a little more, but I can either offset the weight up front, or add a little nitrogen to the ORIs. As for the longer driveline, I have a good 2" left that I can stretch the rear. However, most driveshafts have room to run short enough.
It really isn't all that complicated. In fact, other than some fabrication, it is plug and play and everything works. I'd be willing to bet I could do the swap, including fabrication, in less time than you have into a 3.6 swap and definitely with less money invested. That includes the countless hours you spent researching and problem solving. You didn't have a kit handed to you, so saying you'd need to drop $5k on a swap kit isn't really a fair comparison. As mentioned, you buy the wiring, computer, and motor mounts. The rest is a matter of basic fabrication.
I have a manual trans, so will use the Getrag 238, which is a direct swap. Hemi weighs a little more, but I can either offset the weight up front, or add a little nitrogen to the ORIs. As for the longer driveline, I have a good 2" left that I can stretch the rear. However, most driveshafts have room to run short enough.
It really isn't all that complicated. In fact, other than some fabrication, it is plug and play and everything works. I'd be willing to bet I could do the swap, including fabrication, in less time than you have into a 3.6 swap and definitely with less money invested. That includes the countless hours you spent researching and problem solving. You didn't have a kit handed to you, so saying you'd need to drop $5k on a swap kit isn't really a fair comparison. As mentioned, you buy the wiring, computer, and motor mounts. The rest is a matter of basic fabrication.
I am not trying to evangelize others to do a pentastar swap, just trying to say it can be done, and it wasnt hard or expensive. Now that someone (me) has done it, others can learn from my experience and make their own adventure.
Im not sure that it would be easier or cheaper to do a hemi. If you subtract tools and parts sold from my list, I spent $3k on the swap including shipping and tax (see below for only parts). I spent 6 months stalking ebay, craigslist, and the rest of the interweb, and I could never find a good deal on a hemi or getrag, let alone the other stuff I knew I needed. So it wouldnt have been cheaper for me.
[TABLE="width: 932"]
[TR]
[TD]Part[/TD]
[TD]Price[/TD]
[TD]Source[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Engine[/TD]
[TD]1500.00[/TD]
[TD]Ebay[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Transmission[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Starter[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Clutch[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Radiator hoses[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]AC Comp (and one of the lines)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Intake Manifold[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2x PCM Wiring Harnesses[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Other Parts[/TD]
[TD]793.36[/TD]
[TD]From Engine Seller[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Washer Resevoir and Mounting bracket[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Catalytic Converters[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]One Catalytic Converter bracket[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mounting Thru Bolt x2 for New Motor Mounts[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]Old Engine[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]ABS Module[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]Saved from old washer mount[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]TIPM[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]Old Engine[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Catalytic Converter Bolts (Header bolts from old engine): 6509967AA[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]Old Engine[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Wiring Harness Connectors[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]Old Engine[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Most of the mounting bolts[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]Old Engine[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Exhaust Pipe Converter 68085142AB[/TD]
[TD]90.30[/TD]
[TD]Ebay[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]MOPAR MANIFOLD PIPE BRACKET 12+ JK 68110235AA[/TD]
[TD]26.99[/TD]
[TD]Quadratec[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]MOPAR AIR TEMP SENSOR 12+ JK 5149182AB[/TD]
[TD]16.99[/TD]
[TD]Quadratec[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]MOPAR FUEL VAPOR TUBE 12+ JK 68143715AB[/TD]
[TD]9.99[/TD]
[TD]Quadratec[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]MOPAR FUEL VAPOR TUBE 12+ JK 68143716AB[/TD]
[TD]9.99[/TD]
[TD]Quadratec[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]MOPAR HEX FLANGE HEAD BOLT M8X1.25X55 6105055AA[/TD]
[TD]11.96[/TD]
[TD]Quadratec[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]MOPAR CATALYTIC CONVERTER BRACKET 12+JK 68051880AC[/TD]
[TD]19.99[/TD]
[TD]Quadratec[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]MOPAR HEX HEAD SCREW/WASHER M10X1.5X50 6102172AA[/TD]
[TD]22.41[/TD]
[TD]Quadratec[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]MOPAR EXHAUST MANIFOLD GASKET 12+ JK 68093232AA[/TD]
[TD]8.99[/TD]
[TD]Quadratec[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Y-Back Exhaust Pipe, Brackets, and Muffler[/TD]
[TD]150.00[/TD]
[TD]Craigslist[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Complete Air Intake[/TD]
[TD]150.00[/TD]
[TD]Craigslist[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]MOPAR FUEL VAPOR TUBE 12+ JK 68144603AB[/TD]
[TD]9.99[/TD]
[TD]Quadratec[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]MOPAR STEERING PRESSURE HOSE 12+ JK 68078358AF[/TD]
[TD]84.99[/TD]
[TD]Quadratec[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]BOLT. Mounting. Hex Flange Head. M10X1.50X60.0: 06104222AA x2[/TD]
[TD]2.89[/TD]
[TD]MoparPartsOverstock.com[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]BOLT AND WASHER, SCREW. Mounting. Hex Head. M12x1.75x50: 6501742[/TD]
[TD]5.35[/TD]
[TD]MoparPartsOverstock.com[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]LINE. A/C Suction And Liquid: 55111375AG[/TD]
[TD]135.66[/TD]
[TD]MoparPartsOverstock.com[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]HOSE AND TUBE. Heater Supply And Return: 55111396AC[/TD]
[TD]86.04[/TD]
[TD]MoparPartsOverstock.com[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]HOSE. Heater Core Jumper: 55111446AC[/TD]
[TD]26.01[/TD]
[TD]MoparPartsOverstock.com[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]MOPAR A/C Receiver Drier: 68003495AA-M[/TD]
[TD]94.97[/TD]
[TD]Morris 4x4 Center[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]MOPAR Receiver Drier O-Ring x4: 68026799AA-M[/TD]
[TD]15.96[/TD]
[TD]Morris 4x4 Center[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]MOPAR A/C 5/8" Slim Line Seal: 68100679AA-M[/TD]
[TD]4.97[/TD]
[TD]Morris 4x4 Center[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]MOPAR 1/2" Slim Line Seal: 68100680AA-M[/TD]
[TD]14.99[/TD]
[TD]Morris 4x4 Center[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Crown Driver Motor Mount[/TD]
[TD]161.98[/TD]
[TD]Morris 4x4 Center[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Crown Passenger Motor Mount[/TD]
[TD]Morris 4x4 Center[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCM From 2013 Wrangler[/TD]
[TD]177.00[/TD]
[TD]billsusedparts.com[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Reprogramming of PCM[/TD]
[TD]117.54[/TD]
[TD]controllertech.com[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Jeep Wrangler JK Brake Vacuum Pump: 04581586AA[/TD]
[TD]87.55[/TD]
[TD]unlimitedoffroadcenters on Ebay[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Lower Radiator Hose: 55111395AE[/TD]
[TD]40.43[/TD]
[TD]Jeep Dealership[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SOLD: 2008 Catalytic Converter[/TD]
[TD]-50.00[/TD]
[TD]Craigslist[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SOLD: 2008 Engine[/TD]
[TD]-350.00[/TD]
[TD]Craigslist[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SOLD: 2008 Transmission[/TD]
[TD]-160.00[/TD]
[TD]Craigslist[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SOLD: 2008 Transfer Case[/TD]
[TD]-80.00[/TD]
[TD]Craigslist[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]
[TD]3237.29
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]