I think the F1 guys are driving at speeds faster than they need to go, and are likely at a point where they need the systems they have to do what they do. Going to get groceries is (should be!) somewhat different than that.

I'm not saying the ESP (and/or all other systems) isn't a good thing. I've benefitted from it myself - when driving in a manner that was not proper for the condidtions. I have NEVER benefited from it while driving properly, on the road, and I have had situations where it interfered with me driving properly off-road and improperly on road.

My point wasn't supposed to be that ESP is bad. It isn't. My point is that relying on it to protect you from being a dumb-ass is silly.

If you drive like you don't have ABS, airbags, a horn, etc, you're way less likely to need them.

At the same time, I feel there needs to be some personal responsibility too: if I've disabled my ESP so donuts are possible and I smash into a light pole in some deserted parking lot during a snow storm I won't be at the dealer trying to make them pay for my actions. Nor will I jack up the rates of others' insurance...

 

Last time I checked Formula 1 cars raced on pavement. So lets compare apples to apples here.

I wonder how many Trophy trucks & Dakar racers have some kind of ESP/ABS?
My guess is none if any.

Hitting your brakes at speed in loose gravel with ABS will give you a weird no-brakes feeling & sometimes cause you to run wide in corners.

On new off road motorcycles equipped with ABS/TC, the manufacturers allow it completely disabled for off road purposes.

Most of the members who want to disable the ESP/ABS are doing it for of road purposes, where it is sometimes necessary/beneficial to be able to spin the tires & lock up the brakes.

Again I am not saying that the ESP/ABS sucks, or that I would not want my vehicle equipped with it. I just want an easy way to completely disable it when necessary.

 

ESP is disabled in 4lo. ABS is easy to disable with just one fuse, but I don't know if it comes off automatically in 4lo, I'd have to look.

However, if you read the thread, most people want to disable it here because it is affecting their road driving experience. Jeep will semi-permanently disable it for offroad uses, and some people prefer that, but then they shouldn't be on the road unless, as above, willing to take the consequences for their actions.

All I'm saying is that my ESP only comes on when it needs to, and if yours comes on more often either a)something is wrong, or b)it needed to come on because you're driving at or near the limits Jeep designed.

 

My ESP has only come on once in my 2010 JKU. It seems to have a very high threshold for action.

My company car is a 2007 KJ and the TC/ESP is on often. It has a really low threshold, but its mostly the TC that comes on in the rain.

Sometime on the highway I'll hit a small puddle and it with activate and turn the CC off.

Its on the original brakes (not breaks, ugh!) at 70k miles.

I have been racing sports cars for 10 years and wheeling longer than that, so I think I know how some of this works.

I've worked with cars in series that spec'd oem ABS and they can be hit or miss when racing. Braking is a lot about feedback to the driver and ABS removes that.

The ESP in the KJ is so good in the snow its part of what got me looking at JKs.

Bottom line is good ESP should never surprize you when it comes on if you are familiar with the car.

If its bugging the piss out of you there is something wrong, with you or the car.