Expedition Modded Jeeps - Let's see 'em!!
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From: Great Falls, MT
Cheers!
David
JK Freak
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 876
Likes: 0
From: Minnesota
If you don't mind, let's do it here. I think other folks would be interested in the discussion. And I promise to do my best to make this a positive discussion. Let me start off with a caution: I'm honestly a beginner at video. I've been shooting still photography for over a half century, but video has grabbed my interest only the last few years, both because of the availability of honestly good gear for amateurs, and because of the popularity of online resources like YouTube: People prefer video to stills. If you haven't looked at some of my older works to see my progress, take a quick gander. You'll get an idea of how serious I was when I wrote you were better than me with my first shot at video.
Your first point about getting irritated with YouTube suggests to me that you're using their tools to edit the video. Which certainly explains your results. So, my first suggestion is to buy a proper video editor. My first 50 or so videos were edited in the various free editors you can find out there. Windows Movie Maker and Windows Live Movie Maker (both have strong and weak points that make using both at times helpful). There were a number of other applications I needed to do utility work like convert video formats, edit still images (I still use a couple very old versions of Jasc PaintShop Pro for all of my still editing--they have the basic tools for image editing, and I don't do any of the fancy PhotoShop manipulations to my still images). The problem with the free editors was the limit on tracks (music, voice, video, sound effects, etc). I eventually picked up a copy of CyberLink PowerDirector and it is really nice. I can have as many tracks as I want. Here is an image of my last video (ABDSP Pt 2), to give you an idea of how powerful this editor is ...
Attachment 634442
First off, the editor is very fast. My old editors could easily spend 5-10 minutes processing a bit of GoPro video before I could do anything with it. Shorter segments were quicker, longer segments were much slower (I'll come back to those longer segments). With PowerDirector, note that I have a primary video track and secondary video track (mostly I use that to store a segment of video I'm working on until ready to drop it onto the primary track). There is a sound effects track (none in use on that image), a microphone track (my voice over audio) and a music track.
Note that line that runs the duration of each of the audio tracks. That line is the level that audio is playing right at that moment. I can add an adjustment point and move it up and down. Add a second and I can have the sound increase/decrease as high and for as long as I need during transitions (say, moving from music to voice over, but keeping the music as a lower level). I can also do the same thing with the audio tracks for the video segments.
Speaking of audio tracks for the video segments: I am not locked into the audio that came with the video. I can delete the audio, replace it, use it with a different video segment, etc. This is probably the most powerful tool in PowerDirector because it allows you to get rid of all that unnecessary conversation, doors slamming, street traffic, etc, that a microphone will pick up (I'll come back to that, too). It also allows me to drop in sound effects (such as the wind.wav file, which was a slight modification of the wind.mp3 that's available for free download from YouTube's audio library--I use the free audio editor Audacity to edit audio tracks). To be more specific, the opening sunrise segments (which include both stills and one video, BTW) were made on three different days in two different locations. But I wanted to set the mood of a new day, so juxtaposed those to suit that purpose. I varied the wind level a little to make the viewer think they are different segments. And the wind on a couple is actually with stills--but I use an actual video later (the crow flying from the palm) to convince the viewer otherwise. Pretty tricky of me, huh? BTW, a link you'll find handy: https://www.youtube.com/audiolibrary/music
If you look at the left, the bottom two tracks are the microphone (voice over is how I use that) and music. You can actually drop any audio into that, to include stripping audio off a video and using it down there. But let's set that aside for the moment. Note how the music starts in the middle range, then fades as the voice over starts. The voice over I recorded with the microphone/recorder I use with my HDSLR (It's a Zune H4N recorder). But, remember that "strip audio from a video"? If you don't have something to record your audio, use your GoPro (or whatever action camera flavor you have). Take it out of the case (I'll come back to that later), and just read a written script well after the trip. Drop it into the PowerDirector, unlink the audio and video, then shift the audio where you need it and delete the video you don't need.
Now you have a voice over. At this point let me add that you'll note that during my videos a lot of voice overs occur during parts while we're driving. This is helpful for several reasons: As I replay the video later, it allows me to remember where we are and what is occurring. And usually that commentary is well-suited to include in the video, reducing the need to make a voice over. But, and here is a word of caution: Every bit of video you record needs to be watched and listened to. So, if you turn on a GoPro and let it run for an hour, swap cards, record another hour, etc, you'll have a lot of boring stuff to watch when you get home. Better to turn hit record when you think you need it. Yes, you'll miss some cool commentary and events. But, if the lead driver is your friend, he should be giving you a heads up to start recording ("Mark, cool view at this next turn, start the GoPro"). So, how do you keep those GoPro batteries from dying? If you turn it off between uses, it take too long to turn back on. I've found that an old Nuvi power cord works fine to let me keep the windshield mounted GoPro turned on. So I just have to touch the record button and we're set. Also, if something is said that I miss, I'll ask whoever said it to please repeat for the recording. This usually takes a little explanation for them: They often say it so it sounds fake as opposed to the first time you heard it. But if you do this regularly with the same group, they quickly grasp what you're doing and cooperate. I do carry a second GoPro and turn it off and on as needed. Besides serving as back-up (the darned things overheat pretty easily), it's the one I grab when I want a shot looking out to the left or right, etc.
Thinking of GoPros and audio: I have one of my GoPros mounted in a skeleton housing, the other in a waterproof housing. The one in the skeleton housing can be plugged in to power at all times. It also does a much better job recording audio--such as background engine noise, etc. I noticed the few times we could hear engine noise on your video that it was pretty muffled. That's characteristic of the housing that comes with the GoPros, which is fine for mounting in dusty or wet places (outside the Jeep), but undesirable when windshield mounted. Pick up a skeleton housing and if you mount your GoPro outside, have the original housing handy to swap it into. Then, remember that bit about unlinking video and audio? Well, you can do that with your GoPro footage to ensure that even that footage recorded with the original housing has better background sounds.
An aside, BTW. There are two parts to watching a movie: Video and audio. You need to work hard on both.
Another aside, BTW. Transitions. PowerDirector comes with a bunch of the really silly stuff--hearts, flips, whirling around, etc. Watch pro-made movies and notice that they hardly ever use transitions. It's very amateurish to do so. Period. The only transition you ever need is the fade to represent the passage of time, and even that isn't used hardly at all. On my videos you'll see that the only time I use transitions is during the showing of stills--I think it makes that viewing a little less jarring. I also have a few at the very ending slides, my thinking being that I'm easing the viewer out of his doldrums, LOL. Basically, I try to emulate what I might expect to see from the latest Star Wars movie (no, I haven't seen it yet), etc.
Another thought. I noticed in a few places that your video quality had a lot of artifacts crop up. I struggled with that for a very long time, and if you search you'll find tons of info on dealing with it. The GoPros come with an editor that supposedly deals with it. It doesn't, and it's a very difficult editor to use. I hate it and avoid it. Some folks say to decompress the video, making a 300 megabyte segment into a 3 gigabyte segment. I have a monster desktop computer with so many multi-terabyte hard drives I've lost count, but I quickly use up space if I decompress the videos like that. And, besides, I found that also didn't solve the problem. Ultimately, what I found is that I put all of the original files and edited files (still images) that I plan to use on one fast hard drive. I created the video dragging and dropping those files into PowerDirector. Then, when I produce the final HD video product, I save it to another fast hard drive. I turn off the option to view the production as it renders, and also shut down any other applications I may have open (though I leave background tasks alone). I then don't use the computer for anything else until the rendering is done. And I almost always create a video without those artifacts. If that doesn't work, then I resort to that GoPro software to select, crop and output the video. Thankfully, that's rarely needed.
One last final thought. PowerDirector allows lots of editing of video. Color balance, exposure, etc. It also allows you to play a video backwards (super useful to fade from out of focus to in-focus since doing that in reverse is way easier in real life, then running it backwards to give the blur to in-focus effect you were really after). It also allows changing speed of playback, but use sparingly because quality suffers unless you adapt the recording frame rates (60 FPS recording plays back very nicely at half speed and the usual 30FPS playback). Anyway, there's lots you can do with videos, but watch out for that goofy stuff--use it sparingly if at all (I have a couple funny segments where I've sped up the action in an attempt to add a touch of humor).
Anyway, I've gotten pretty long-winded. I'm open to questions, but do remind again: I'm a beginner at this and still have a lot to learn about video. For me it's a fascinating new area to explore.
Your first point about getting irritated with YouTube suggests to me that you're using their tools to edit the video. Which certainly explains your results. So, my first suggestion is to buy a proper video editor. My first 50 or so videos were edited in the various free editors you can find out there. Windows Movie Maker and Windows Live Movie Maker (both have strong and weak points that make using both at times helpful). There were a number of other applications I needed to do utility work like convert video formats, edit still images (I still use a couple very old versions of Jasc PaintShop Pro for all of my still editing--they have the basic tools for image editing, and I don't do any of the fancy PhotoShop manipulations to my still images). The problem with the free editors was the limit on tracks (music, voice, video, sound effects, etc). I eventually picked up a copy of CyberLink PowerDirector and it is really nice. I can have as many tracks as I want. Here is an image of my last video (ABDSP Pt 2), to give you an idea of how powerful this editor is ...
Attachment 634442
First off, the editor is very fast. My old editors could easily spend 5-10 minutes processing a bit of GoPro video before I could do anything with it. Shorter segments were quicker, longer segments were much slower (I'll come back to those longer segments). With PowerDirector, note that I have a primary video track and secondary video track (mostly I use that to store a segment of video I'm working on until ready to drop it onto the primary track). There is a sound effects track (none in use on that image), a microphone track (my voice over audio) and a music track.
Note that line that runs the duration of each of the audio tracks. That line is the level that audio is playing right at that moment. I can add an adjustment point and move it up and down. Add a second and I can have the sound increase/decrease as high and for as long as I need during transitions (say, moving from music to voice over, but keeping the music as a lower level). I can also do the same thing with the audio tracks for the video segments.
Speaking of audio tracks for the video segments: I am not locked into the audio that came with the video. I can delete the audio, replace it, use it with a different video segment, etc. This is probably the most powerful tool in PowerDirector because it allows you to get rid of all that unnecessary conversation, doors slamming, street traffic, etc, that a microphone will pick up (I'll come back to that, too). It also allows me to drop in sound effects (such as the wind.wav file, which was a slight modification of the wind.mp3 that's available for free download from YouTube's audio library--I use the free audio editor Audacity to edit audio tracks). To be more specific, the opening sunrise segments (which include both stills and one video, BTW) were made on three different days in two different locations. But I wanted to set the mood of a new day, so juxtaposed those to suit that purpose. I varied the wind level a little to make the viewer think they are different segments. And the wind on a couple is actually with stills--but I use an actual video later (the crow flying from the palm) to convince the viewer otherwise. Pretty tricky of me, huh? BTW, a link you'll find handy: https://www.youtube.com/audiolibrary/music
If you look at the left, the bottom two tracks are the microphone (voice over is how I use that) and music. You can actually drop any audio into that, to include stripping audio off a video and using it down there. But let's set that aside for the moment. Note how the music starts in the middle range, then fades as the voice over starts. The voice over I recorded with the microphone/recorder I use with my HDSLR (It's a Zune H4N recorder). But, remember that "strip audio from a video"? If you don't have something to record your audio, use your GoPro (or whatever action camera flavor you have). Take it out of the case (I'll come back to that later), and just read a written script well after the trip. Drop it into the PowerDirector, unlink the audio and video, then shift the audio where you need it and delete the video you don't need.
Now you have a voice over. At this point let me add that you'll note that during my videos a lot of voice overs occur during parts while we're driving. This is helpful for several reasons: As I replay the video later, it allows me to remember where we are and what is occurring. And usually that commentary is well-suited to include in the video, reducing the need to make a voice over. But, and here is a word of caution: Every bit of video you record needs to be watched and listened to. So, if you turn on a GoPro and let it run for an hour, swap cards, record another hour, etc, you'll have a lot of boring stuff to watch when you get home. Better to turn hit record when you think you need it. Yes, you'll miss some cool commentary and events. But, if the lead driver is your friend, he should be giving you a heads up to start recording ("Mark, cool view at this next turn, start the GoPro"). So, how do you keep those GoPro batteries from dying? If you turn it off between uses, it take too long to turn back on. I've found that an old Nuvi power cord works fine to let me keep the windshield mounted GoPro turned on. So I just have to touch the record button and we're set. Also, if something is said that I miss, I'll ask whoever said it to please repeat for the recording. This usually takes a little explanation for them: They often say it so it sounds fake as opposed to the first time you heard it. But if you do this regularly with the same group, they quickly grasp what you're doing and cooperate. I do carry a second GoPro and turn it off and on as needed. Besides serving as back-up (the darned things overheat pretty easily), it's the one I grab when I want a shot looking out to the left or right, etc.
Thinking of GoPros and audio: I have one of my GoPros mounted in a skeleton housing, the other in a waterproof housing. The one in the skeleton housing can be plugged in to power at all times. It also does a much better job recording audio--such as background engine noise, etc. I noticed the few times we could hear engine noise on your video that it was pretty muffled. That's characteristic of the housing that comes with the GoPros, which is fine for mounting in dusty or wet places (outside the Jeep), but undesirable when windshield mounted. Pick up a skeleton housing and if you mount your GoPro outside, have the original housing handy to swap it into. Then, remember that bit about unlinking video and audio? Well, you can do that with your GoPro footage to ensure that even that footage recorded with the original housing has better background sounds.
An aside, BTW. There are two parts to watching a movie: Video and audio. You need to work hard on both.
Another aside, BTW. Transitions. PowerDirector comes with a bunch of the really silly stuff--hearts, flips, whirling around, etc. Watch pro-made movies and notice that they hardly ever use transitions. It's very amateurish to do so. Period. The only transition you ever need is the fade to represent the passage of time, and even that isn't used hardly at all. On my videos you'll see that the only time I use transitions is during the showing of stills--I think it makes that viewing a little less jarring. I also have a few at the very ending slides, my thinking being that I'm easing the viewer out of his doldrums, LOL. Basically, I try to emulate what I might expect to see from the latest Star Wars movie (no, I haven't seen it yet), etc.
Another thought. I noticed in a few places that your video quality had a lot of artifacts crop up. I struggled with that for a very long time, and if you search you'll find tons of info on dealing with it. The GoPros come with an editor that supposedly deals with it. It doesn't, and it's a very difficult editor to use. I hate it and avoid it. Some folks say to decompress the video, making a 300 megabyte segment into a 3 gigabyte segment. I have a monster desktop computer with so many multi-terabyte hard drives I've lost count, but I quickly use up space if I decompress the videos like that. And, besides, I found that also didn't solve the problem. Ultimately, what I found is that I put all of the original files and edited files (still images) that I plan to use on one fast hard drive. I created the video dragging and dropping those files into PowerDirector. Then, when I produce the final HD video product, I save it to another fast hard drive. I turn off the option to view the production as it renders, and also shut down any other applications I may have open (though I leave background tasks alone). I then don't use the computer for anything else until the rendering is done. And I almost always create a video without those artifacts. If that doesn't work, then I resort to that GoPro software to select, crop and output the video. Thankfully, that's rarely needed.
One last final thought. PowerDirector allows lots of editing of video. Color balance, exposure, etc. It also allows you to play a video backwards (super useful to fade from out of focus to in-focus since doing that in reverse is way easier in real life, then running it backwards to give the blur to in-focus effect you were really after). It also allows changing speed of playback, but use sparingly because quality suffers unless you adapt the recording frame rates (60 FPS recording plays back very nicely at half speed and the usual 30FPS playback). Anyway, there's lots you can do with videos, but watch out for that goofy stuff--use it sparingly if at all (I have a couple funny segments where I've sped up the action in an attempt to add a touch of humor).
Anyway, I've gotten pretty long-winded. I'm open to questions, but do remind again: I'm a beginner at this and still have a lot to learn about video. For me it's a fascinating new area to explore.
JK Jedi Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,800
Likes: 374
From: Midwest City, OK
Cineform studio (free on GoPro's website under the software tab) is the best I found for editing go pro video, if you use multiple types of cameras I recommend running your go pro footage through cineform first to remove the fish eye and clean up the video (including length of scenes) you can use another software to make the final cut but go pro footage really does look better through their own software.
Ex: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vctM9vj0vtk
As opposed to one of my earlier videos that I didn't use cineform studio to edit the footage first:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xckak_ix4L8
(Second video is a little long but you get the idea)
Both videos filmed in the exact same camera
Ex: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vctM9vj0vtk
As opposed to one of my earlier videos that I didn't use cineform studio to edit the footage first:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xckak_ix4L8
(Second video is a little long but you get the idea)
Both videos filmed in the exact same camera
As I alluded, the way I solved the GoPro video problem was using two different hard drives--one for the working files, another for the final output. They are platter drives, and both a bit old by today's standards, but once I did that it pretty much fixed the crummy GoPro video. My computer--which is five years old but still a bit of a monster that I've upgraded along the way--eight cores, I've lost count of disk storage but it's many TBs of platter and one SSD, water-cooled, 24-GB of RAM, the fastest video card that Nvidea offers (just replaced a few weeks ago)--is no slouch, but my daughter is going to rebuild it for me within a few weeks to be, once again, top-of-the-line, this time moving some of the data and working drives over to the fastest SSDs available (currently SSD is used only for OS and applications--I divided my drives up by what's stored). She'll also add a RAID array to make my current back-up system a bit less work on my part (there are automatic back-ups, but off-site storage I still manage manually). I have a 200 Mbps Internet connection and an AC Wi-Fi network in the house, running through a PCIe card on the computer (did you know that those handy-dandy USB AC adapters sold everywhere slow down your Wi-Fi?), but upload speeds are only 25 Mbps so online back-up is not terribly practical for the many TBs of data you can get once you start shooting video.
Here's my experience, though: GoPro video pretty much sucks when compared to video from a real camera (7D Mk II and 5D Mk III in my case). GoPros are very handy if you need that form-factor camera. But, I was with a pro crew last year after the WABDR trip in Utah and Colorado and though they carried a couple GoPros, they were loathe to actually use them--I remember one time when it was pouring rain and they mounted one. And that footage never made it into their final product. They'd rather have a guy standing in the back of a pick-up truck with an HDSLR than mount a GoPro to get video sequences.
Last edited by Mark Doiron; Jan 13, 2016 at 11:29 PM.
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 303
Likes: 1
From: Blue Bell, PA
There has been mention of the CoPilot app here and there on the thread so I downloaded to check it out. Nice simple app but it doesn't refresh/advance the map as the pointer advances or at least on the apple for IOS. Is this the case on the andriod/windows side too? Seems odd to put a GPS map system out this way.
JK Jedi Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,800
Likes: 374
From: Midwest City, OK
There has been mention of the CoPilot app here and there on the thread so I downloaded to check it out. Nice simple app but it doesn't refresh/advance the map as the pointer advances or at least on the apple for IOS. Is this the case on the andriod/windows side too? Seems odd to put a GPS map system out this way.
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 303
Likes: 1
From: Blue Bell, PA
Yeah, I seem to recall there were some refresh problems with the free version. I think that was by design to get you to pay up. The paid version follows location and deviations from route, and does recalculations just fine (on Android). They do offer frequent half price sales on it. You could just hold out for that.
JK Jedi Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,800
Likes: 374
From: Midwest City, OK
Carrizo Mountain
The third day of our Anza Borrego trip is now online. On this day we venture outside of the park proper to BLM land at Carrizo Mountain. Desert Fox and I had traveled up there last year with Tom H as our guide. But it was wet and foggy, so we didn't see very much of the surrounding countryside. Well, what a difference clear weather makes!
Note that, as always, our videos are made for best viewing experience on a real HDTV with a decent sound system. It really does make a difference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z3_SI8axpE
Note that, as always, our videos are made for best viewing experience on a real HDTV with a decent sound system. It really does make a difference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z3_SI8axpE
Good Show