AZToad

Recently, another thread suggested that a forum member sustained substantial transmission damage due to shifting the transmission while fording some water. Damage was not covered under warranty.

Has it been confirmed that the damage was directly caused by shifting into 4wd while in water? Have others ever experienced this?

Was the damage due to mud / rocks or water in general?

Does this affect all transmissions on the JKs or just certain models?

Has ANYONE seen where in the manual it states that you shouldn't shift while in water?

Hate to ask but some of us are now even more confused - some perhaps thought it was common knowledge but if the folks I thought were very knowledgeable about Jeeps in general were unaware, was this just an excuse from the dealership or something we really need to be aware of?

Sorry for opening it back but it seems like a bunch of folks that have been in the middle of this - regardless of attitude - may not all be in consensus???

I will definitely go back and post this in that 101 thread too if we can find definitive answers.

Thanks - and flame on!!! I usually am pretty thick skinned!!

DadsCJ

Flame on for what??? Is it hot there...

I have shifted my CJ in water into and out of 4 wheel drive with no problems, it is an automatic, but a transfer case is a transfer case.

I have never heard of not shifting in water, if I had a stick. Mud will pack into anything and that can be a problem, but if it is water I don't see the concern.

Just my 4 cents, inflation you know.

gcg

As I understand it the problem arises because the bell housing has slots in it that allow water to enter it. So when you are in deep water, it will flow into the bell housing and be in contact with the flywheel, pressure plate and clutch disc (on a manual transmission). As long as you don't press the clutch in, apparently everything is fine. However, if you press the clutch, this opens a small gap between the flywheel, the clutch disc and the pressure plate (by design). Since there is water in this area, it can run into the gaps. If the water is clean, it probably won't cause a problem (except for possibly allowing the clutch to slip a bit until it dries out). However, if the water happens to be dirty, gritty, sandy, etc., it appears that the gunk may get into the gaps. This is a problem. When you let the clutch back out, the flywheel, clutch disc and pressure plate cannot come back together and mate smoothly since there's now crud in there. I believe this is what causes the shifting problem and it probably mars all the mating surfaces, etc.

There was talk in the previous thread about stuff being "sucked up" and vacuums created, etc. I don't think that's accurate. I don't think anything about shifting a manual transmission is going to cause a vacuum and "suck" stuff in. I think it just flows in through the slots and pressing the clutch allows the gunk to then flow into the gaps.

It would be my guess (and only a guess), that this problem would not occur with an automatic because there is no clutch disc or pressure plate and no gaps are opened up when you shift.

Further, I think that the only problem in shifting the transfer case under water would be if you had a manual transmission and used the clutch in the process (for the reasons described above). I doubt there would be any problem shifting the transfer case with an automatic.

CHOPPER

I didn't read the thread, but I'd would say that if "substantial transmission damage due to shifting the transmission" is what actually took place, then maybe what happened is the person tried to shift the transfer case from 4-high into 4-low while moving.

Normally the gears will grind like mad if you try this while moving faster than 1 or 2 miles per hour. If they were traveling...oh let's say about 10 or 15 MPH and they actually got it to go in after grinding the crap out of it, then something could really get screwed up inside there. And it wouldn't matter if they were going through water or not. And this would not be covered under warranty because it would be driver error.

But this is just a hypothetical situation because, like I said, I didn't read the original thread.

MJS_Jeep_888

That talk of vacuums came from me, and was more in reference to the electronic swaybar on Rubi models than the tranny... in fact, many people had to wait a long time to get a Rubi from the factory because they were withholding models while they tried to engineer a "fix" for the swaybar reconnection method... it's my understanding that the original spec was causing all sorts of water to be sucked up until they fixed it. In any event, this is probably a non-issue at this point.

I'm confused here: I thought that we were talking about shifting a manual transmission, not the T-Case... Again, for the record, my knowledge of this problem is NOT first-hand: It's from two different threads on this forum that I linked to in the "101" thread... So, sorry if I caused any confusion.

Also for the record: I HAVE shifted my T-Case while submerged, without issue... I have an Auto, and was in 2WD when I decided to ford through a washed-out road back in the Spring... in the middle of fording, I sensed some rear-end "float" and decided that 4HI would be a better move, and so shifted without incident... So I think we're talking about two different scenarios here.

Now I'm really confuddled...

gcg

I hope I didn't confuse things with my post. It seemed to me like the "vacuum" argument somehow got generalized in the posts and there was some talk about things being sucked up when you shifted. That was the part that I didn't feel was accurate.

The same thing seemed to happen with the discussion of shifting the transmission. A few of the posts seemed to indicate that the problem might apply to shifting the transfer case, too. Again, I don't think that would be the case, except if the clutch is used in the process.

I was just trying to explain what I believe the basic problem was (my knowledge is not first hand, either). Sorry if I confused things.

AZToad

When reading those other threads - the confusion got deeper - because of just those items. If this (or any suspected high water damage) would only be attributable to 6 speeds vs the autos - that is good to know - but still something important to know for both sides.

If this is purely based upon the depression of the clutch - that seems like a fairly serious issue and one that (although I don't have right now) I'm certain folks with sticks would want to know.

However if this was a case of shifting while moving too fast or performing the shift in a manner that the manual specifically describes as causing damage, then perhaps this is all a moot point but one that I for one would definitely love to hear the bottom line as I will definitely be playing in the water soon!

CHOPPER

AZToad....Maybe you should post a link to the thread you were refering to originally.
Then we will be able to have a better understanding of what you are talking about.

Just a sugjestion.

AZToad

Sorry 'bout that - good point.

There are a few so let me go grab them and post here...a couple got a bit personal so we thought it best to repost as a general discussion...back in a bit...

AZToad

There are actually lots of threads but here are just a handful on some of these issues - or the issue is raised:

https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/stock-jk-tech-12/fording-water-6497/
https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/jk-talk-26/jk-water-mud-10853/
https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/modified-jk-tech-2/trans-help-5766/
https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/modified-jk-tech-2/oh-no-trans-problems-5413/

but this one really may have started the bashing that we were trying to get back on track with this for:

https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/stock-jk-tech-12/interesting-news-dealership-today-10810/